Contamination of oil on a paralell rack ...

[R12rules]

I get the honor .. no ... the Priveledge of replacing a fifteen horse in the morning.

I was there early today preping it for my co-worker to show with the new unit.

I noticed the oil sensor screen was all plugged up with metal grit.
The compressor had broken the crank or something like that ... I was told.
No compression and very little amperage draw ... was the diag I was told yesterday.

Anyway, since this unit is filthy inside, and since it shares the oil system with three other units, I thought I might need to do something to clean the oil system up.

Should I ??? And how?

[condenseddave]

Change the oil in the rack.

Change all the filters/cores.

Clean the oil separator screen and float.

BTW. Your company certainly seems to change out a LOT of compressors! What gives?

[Dowadudda]

I was thinking the same thing.

[R12rules]

We just took over this acount last November.

This particular unit went down due to a flooding "demand cooling valve".

The stores in general are held captive, so to speak by corperate management's desire to spend a dollar to save a dime.

The engine room I am in now, looks like something on "the Arizona".
I have never seen so much rust and grey paint.



This stuff has tremendous potential. But corp is in the midst of a revamp again, so they are not spending right now.
Pitty.



Dave, thanks for the info. That is what I thought.
I guess I'm gonna be there awhile......

[Dowadudda]

You will learn to hate that corporate game. I hear you loud and clear.

Oil management and oil issues I have somewhat myself always have not been very good at with racks, but about 3 years ago or so I had such a run on problematic oil issues that I seemed to aquire the neccesary knowledge.

In my experience. Regulators if they seem to overfeed, change em, don't try to clean em. I think Dave will disagree with me but. Ther separator float and screen. A good thing to clean when into a system. At least drop the float and inspect. Plus this way you'll be able to charge the separator with oil since your changing the oil anyway.

Every core, every filter on that rack, change.

All pumps with new oil.

And then let that prick run for about a week and come back and do her again.

I have witnessed guys having to do three or four oil changes to get all the crap out of it. It's not commen but I have seen it.

[Dowadudda]

I forgot to mention the oil pump screen on each pump. when you got the oil out, pull that screen too.

[Freezeking2000]

I prefer to never except in the most extreme low temp R-22 applications change compressor oil. You can never get it all out of the rack or piping. I add a changeable core sporlan oil line filter and change it 2 or 3 times in a year and the oil gets very clean. I clean seperator floats and almost never play with the screens in the seperator unless i have an extreme problem getting oil back into the resevior.

[R12rules]

I got the unit changed out and runing.

Damn!!!

Everybody with the company was outa town. So I hired a mechaninc fried of mine to assist in the heavy work.

Always better with two guys anyways....


It went fairly smooth. This new chain hoist, the expensive one, it is sure a nice thing to have. It made the job so much smoother .... didnt even need a come a long.

Did bring an oak plank into the motor room though. It helped.

Jus slid that puppy out on the plank then down onto the floor.

This was my first fifteen horse, alone. It caused me to think everything thru.

Like when I was hooking up the can, the jumpers werent in place on the new compressor. I think the last two I did had the jumpers already in place.
So that part was a no brainer.

Perhaps it was taken care of by the coworker I had that day.
Anyway ... today ... there was NO coworker to fasten the jumpers in place. So I had to think; "where do they go?"
So I began putting them in place for 230v.
Then ...as a second thought, I measured the voltage for the unit and found the rack was on 480V!!! OOOOPS!!!

Good thing I checked!
So. ... I changed the brass jumpers and got it together.


Danged if the sucker didnt come with the right gasket for the two piece discharge header pipe.
And I looked for the gasket everywhere. Nothing on the truck either.
So we made one for temporary. Used some thin cardboard, soaked in oil.
Not too shabby, for something done in a pinch.

It only leaks just a tiny bit..... will replace it soon

I was lookin over the rack for all the driers and cores I need to replace tomorrow.

Four suction, two liquid, one 303.

Wish I had an air rachet! That's an awful lota bolts to do for all them drier cores!


I dont know a thing about those oil separators, other than in theory.
Never had to fiddle with them in the past.


The oil system uses a C303 flare drier. Should I just replace that rig with a Sporlan core set up? It's better in the long run for cleanups, right?




When it was time to do that deman coling set up, I went out and bought the whole new kit & caboodle.
Man what a high price ...

Anyway, when I got the new stuff mounted, I happened to notice there wasnt a power cord to the old controller.

hmmm....

Then I noticed it laying on the floor, underneath the rack.

hmmm.... (not a good sign....not good at all)

So I inspected the wiring inside the rack control panel... OMG!!!

Let's NOT talk about what kind of moron worked on this system last.....

The solenoid to the demand cooling was wired hot!

To make matters only worse, when I fired this sucker up.... I was checkin all the stuff...you know... the usual stuff.... and so I pushed in the reset button on the OIL PRESSURE SAFETY SWITCH ..... and guess what DIDNT happen???

That's Right!!! NOTHING HAPPENED!!!

AUGH!!!

How do these guys ever last in this industry???


So because some idiot fouled up the oil pressure safety, the unit had absolutely NO protection against liquid flooding of the bearings! Then when same jerk or another jerk ... came along and wired the demand cooling hot .....all the time .... the bearings washed away and the crank broke!
And the unit jus kept on hummin along!!!


I guess I'm gonna be there awhile tomorrow.

Boy you shoulda seen that Astro van sink down when the forklift loaded that fifteen horse copeland into the side door this morning....
It was a wonder the front wheels even stayed on the ground!


Reverse went out this morning.... getting a new van on Monday.
I'm on call this weekend.


Am I organised yet? ......... what do you think?


(not a chance .....)

[condenseddave]

But what you're looking for is either a Sporlan "OF-303" (Throwaway oil filter.) or, preferably, the "ROF-413". Replaceable core oil filter.

[mccool]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by R12rules
[B]I got the unit changed out and runing.

Damn!!!



It went fairly smooth. LOL

Then ...as a second thought, I measured the voltage for the unit and found the rack was on 480V!!! OOOOPS!!!
And I looked for the gasket everywhere. Nothing on the truck either.
So we made one for temporary. Used some thin cardboard, soaked in oil.
Not too shabby, for something done in a pinch.
It only leaks just a tiny bit..... will replace it soon
Let's NOT talk about what kind of moron worked on this system last.....
The solenoid to the demand cooling was wired hot!
To make matters only worse, when I fired this sucker up.... I was checkin all the stuff...you know... the usual stuff.... and so I pushed in the reset button on the OIL PRESSURE SAFETY SWITCH ..... and guess what DIDNT happen???That's Right!!! NOTHING HAPPENED!!!
AUGH!!!
How do these guys ever last in this industry???
So because some idiot fouled up the oil pressure safety, the unit had absolutely NO protection against liquid flooding of the bearings! Then when same jerk or another jerk ... came along and wired the demand cooling hot .....all the time .... the bearings washed away and the crank broke!
And the unit jus kept on hummin along!!!
I guess I'm gonna be there awhile tomorrow.
Am I organised yet? ......... what do you think?

Sounds like a compressor change nightmare, how many man hours were added to this atrocity due to the previous screwups. Hope it was'nt quoted or someone's got a smooth explanation for the customer to get some extras. At least ya saw it through and won the battle. You're sure gonna learn fast working for this outfit!! Best of Luck!

[smbore]

on 460 volts the wires for the three legs are colored brown, orange & yellow.

[frozensolid]

Use only quality oil filters, the cheap ones tend to disintegrate. Cleaning up after that mess, is a real joy.

[m&s hvac]

Sounds like you have found a good job that is challenging. PTL.

[R12rules]

Originally posted by m&s hvac
Sounds like you have found a good job that is challenging. PTL.

Challenging.... yep!

I went back this morning to do this. On the way there I had to get parts for that. Then once I arrived at the store, I was told to get ready for another call that just came in.
As I'm working I get another call saying I should forget EVERYTHING and go run this call for an ice cream line up which is totally down!!!

So I drop everything and run off and find a whole rack is down. The 480 breaker to the rack had tripped!

I get it back online safely and learned a valuable lesson. I didnt have to front seat the suction service valves on each of the four units! I could have simply closed all the ball valves on the suction header and then opened them one at a time once I restarted the units.

That would have been easier.

Found a really bad contact on unit four.

Why would someone put a 90 AMP contactor on a unit drawing 18 amps??????????

[Dowadudda]

Your really grooving on this aren't you? Hey, you made it to the big leagues, and I am one that is hat's off to you and, I think many of us can appreciate that enthusiasm you display in your posts as of late.

But I also recall you have asked for tips. I have one for you. And it is not meant to insinuetue anything from what you have said about your new job. I am saying this cause I remember being right where your at. I am sure a few guys in here can tottally understand.

You made it to the show, make sure you find time to also enjoy that feeling and track your building of confidence. Take a sit back and relax as well as drive this train forward.

Find a comfortable stride. You will be a better mechanic for it.

[Freezeking2000]

I usally just turn on one pump at a time and it works fine unless it was off for like 24 hours or something. Most likely the back pressure will dropp quickly. You can also just use toggle switches for solonoid valves mounted on the rack or turn off the solonoid controll breaker. I can remember having to ever close off ball valves to re-start a rack that had been down.

[R12rules]

Originally posted by Dowadudda
Your really grooving on this aren't you? Hey, you made it to the big leagues, and I am one that is hat's off to you and, I think many of us can appreciate that enthusiasm you display in your posts as of late.

Find a comfortable stride. You will be a better mechanic for it.

Thanks .... I find myself striving at times to keep up with what is going on.
I see this rack over here needs this ...so I wanna find the time .. or make the time to get in there and do what it needs.
Then there's that rack over there, they gotta leak and two systems low on gas..... then there's the line up with some tx valves that needs some adjustment .... and on and on.


But I cannot be everywhere at once!

By nature, I try to work to PREVENT breakdowns. But nobody else seems to care! They just want you to be there when it does crash and burn, which it certainly will!

And then these market directors, managers ... they never ever take a cases temperature!
Either a customer or a vendor is the one who informs management of their problem areas!
But by that time, they got milkshakes and warm seafood!

I find the politics and mentality of corperate supermarkets to be less than brilliant, to be sure.
They are their own worst enemy.

I will try to pace myself though.
Thanks for the advice.

[R12rules]

Originally posted by Freezeking2000
I usally just turn on one pump at a time and it works fine unless it was off for like 24 hours or something. Most likely the back pressure will dropp quickly. You can also just use toggle switches for solonoid valves mounted on the rack or turn off the solonoid controll breaker. I can remember having to ever close off ball valves to re-start a rack that had been down.

hmmm... didnt know this. I'll try it next time.

I am positive there WILL be a next time ....

[R12rules]

Originally posted by m&s hvac
Sounds like you have found a good job that is challenging. PTL.

Hello Mike & Karen,

yes ... it is challenging. It may not be ont he coast ... but it is where I am for the time being.

Susan keeps reminding me of where my focus should be.
You know what I mean.

I imagine your really hopping right about now.


I look at that photo every single day. Thanks again. We'll never forget that trip.

[refer dude 2479]

I agree with freezking about the oil change. I dont think I have ever changed all of the oil in a rack system. You are better served by changing all of the filter driers, suction filter cores, and oil line filters and following up with repeat filter changes untill the oil is clean and test ok for acid. Make sure you keep the oil seperator working properly, especially in the case like yours where the copmpressor failed mechanically. Another tip is to ALWAYS open up the dead compressor. It will share with you a world of information as to why it failed. A minimum is to remove the valve plates. If you have time pop off the front bearing head and peek in at the lower end. Almost all lower end failures are the result of oiling problems. most top end failures are the result of excessive refrigerant issues. Keep up the high enthusiasm you are doing good, but do not burn out. You can not save the world, only the call you are on.