I wonder why your boiler is air bound?

**cuervo** · 03-21-2010, 08:52 PM

Complaint was short cycling plus they kept hearing water in the lines. I sold the job and will be installing it within the next few days. I will post the after results then.

**RuudInstaller** · 03-22-2010, 05:52 PM

I bet that circ pump works really well with that st. 90 on it. :?

**pacnw** · 03-22-2010, 07:21 PM

I am no boiler person, see one or two a year, so can you explain what all is wrong so I can educate myself?

thanks

**TriWorksInc** · 03-22-2010, 07:23 PM

I blows me away that the boiler ran for years, and the piping is a mess. The manufacturer sends that "little booky thing" IOM to try and avoid a moron from piping it that way. Scary isn't it! Good pics.

**hvac248** · 03-22-2010, 08:23 PM

Yaaaa! I remember when I had my first beer.

**cuervo** · 03-22-2010, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by pacnw

I am no boiler person, see one or two a year, so can you explain what all is wrong so I can educate myself?

thanks

The expansion tank is just there for looks, not being used really. The check valve (brown fixture before expansion tank) will not allow water to get into expansion tank. There is no air separation in this system such as an air scoop. The air vent is not helping the system where it's placed. The circulator although in an ok spot should not have a street 90 right before going into the pump. The boiler/ setup is over 25years old this is how it should look like now or at least in my opinion... http://www.bellgossett.com/homeowner...flo-Module.asp

**sirjames** · 03-23-2010, 04:28 AM

I`ve actually seen expansion tanks piped this way and they worked fine,as long as the pump is running.

Not saying this is how I would do it.

**skippedover** · 03-28-2010, 01:35 PM

While the whole job is laughable at best, there's really nothing wrong with the expansion tank, per se. The flow valve is open to the check through either the bottom or back port. The only port that's affected by the check/flow valve is the port that's going out to the system. I admit to, on occassion, taking an addional loop off the back of a check valve like that when the customer needed a new loop and the cost of repiping would be a job killer. Of course, that was always with a circulator on the return, not on the supply pumping away.

**ascj** · 03-28-2010, 01:54 PM

What scares me most about the setup, is loop in below boiler with no low water cut off and/or flow switch.

**icesailor** · 03-28-2010, 05:37 PM

Although I personally would never install anything as crude as this, from a technical standpoint, it is correct or was at the time of install.

When this was installed, circulators came installed on package boilers on the return. When installed on the return, you do not get cavitation and air in the supply side like you do now with "pumping away" installs. There was a reason circulators were put on the return back when. With wet seals, they didn't fail as quickly as ones on the hot supply.

As far as the piping below the boiler, all piping, supply and return go above the boiler. It could have been installed higher but it does go over the top. A low water cut off would be nice.

There should have been a vent at that evil street ell. Like a float vent. The water noise was more likely from air/water in that section and the circulator pulling against it.

I would have put the boiler feed on the return at the boiler so water fed directly in to the boiler and installed a valve between the boiler and purge valve on the return for ease of purging. If something happened to the below piping, the boiler would always be filling first to get to the leak.

One can nit-pick something to death but it is essentially correct.

One can crow the sunrise up about circulators on the supply but they don't always work as advertised.

Works for me.

**cuervo** · 03-30-2010, 12:18 PM

I changed out the boiler. Very simple job. Feel free to comment. I am here to learn. I did put the drip leg for the backflow preventor and changed the gas flex the next day.