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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    12

    Hmm

    NEED HELP was called in this winter to install equipment that was purchase by a gc (slow winter) this is what i have the room is 12x12 8' celling no wglass. homeowner looking for 55 degrees zone temp. between jan - march i had it running like a charm. since the warmer weather came in well can only hit 65 degrees this is what i have a kedco 3/4 cond rated at 8500btus ahu rated @ 1.5 tons and spolan txv is an ove-1-0 r22 system. s/a @ 50 r/a@60 site glass full running @ 60 suction and 225 head. most likly i think the cond might be under size but not sure or txv not size right. also drop fan speed to low to try to drop s/a temp. engineer from kedco say max ambeint of 80 degrees room will require about 6900 to maintain 55degrees thanks for the help

  2. #2
    When someone told you the load was 6900 BTU's, they were speaking of the temp you listed? 55 F.

    And you say the cond unit you have is rated for 8500BTU's @ 25F suction. That would be 50 # back pressure. With 10F subcooling and all, you should have around a 225 head pressure.

    Hmmmmmmm.... So far, are we both on the same page?



    What is your coil superheat?
    What is your superheat back at the unit?

    Can you temporarily shut down the fan and watch the a-coil ice pattern? Does it feed nice and evenly with frost?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    most of the time in the Philippines
    Posts
    1,211
    1. Look at the TXV again, Sporlan O body valves start at 15 tons. I'm thinking it might be GVE-1-C?

    2. AHU? It has a resi air handler or a commercial refrigeration coil?

    3. Who's compressor and what is the model #? From there we can get the compressor capacity.

    4. 225 condenser pressure at what ambient?

    5. Like R12 said, superheats? Also subcooling, unless the highside has a receiver, then nevermind.

    6. How is the room constructed? Conventional walk in box or something else?

    7. Max ambient of 80 degrees? What does that mean? Max of 80 degree condenser entering air?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,763
    You probably don't have enough insulation in the walls. What's the construction and location of the room?
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Medford Oregon
    Posts
    807
    is that kedco an A/C unit - sounds like it is
    A/C designed for 25 deg TD
    wine box should be at 15 deg TD
    you can't get there with an A/C unit, coil too small
    in addition box must be vapor barrier and insulated

    looks like you have to change equipment - sorry





  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,166
    I'm having troubles selecting for a wine room also, small room already built before we were brought in to add refrigeration. 5'x6'x9' with nice wood cabinetry on 3 sides right to the ceiling, very little space to add an evap coil. 2 choices are on ceiling space which is only about 4'x4' left after cabinets or 3'x2' above door. Of course everything is drywalled and finished to boot. A pain to figure out the load requirements, I think the #'s i'm getting from load calc's are too high, given that the room will seldomly be opened, these people like to buy and keep vintage wine. I must ask about vapour barrier and insulation values yet but i'll almost guarrentee that there is no vapour barrier. We did one for the same well monied people last year in a different house, the wine room was located in a 100 year old vault that had 12" thick walls, this one is just regular frame construction with the wall to wall cabinets. Load calcs tell me about 4500 to 5500 btuh but they are not really designed for this kinda room and the low usage, you godda fudge alot of #"s.
    Oh well I'll pose some more questions tomorrow.
    Anyone seen a similar setup and have some answers?
    Watts New, Ohm My, I been Electrically Commutated. Are U2.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Medford Oregon
    Posts
    807
    wth good insulation and vapor barrier, 3500 btuh
    will do fine
    without insulation and vapor barrier, walk away from
    job 'cause those cabinets and wine will be gone

  8. #8
    Sounds like system capacity is short. If you drop the fan speed you'll reduce the unit capacity even more. Yes, the SA will be colder, but there will be less of it and the suction will drop and total capacity will be reduced. I'd also worry about the resulting low humidity in a wine cellar.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,763
    I do my share of wine cellars/rooms and if they aren't built right you will live with them forever if you don't approach this from the right point of view. No insulation or vapor barrier -- it just isn't going to work the way it should.

    On the other hand, installing a larger refrigeration system will solve most problems. The compressor is not the happiest thing in the world but most customers that have wine rooms think nothing of paying good money to replace the compressor/condensing unit every 3 to 5 years. Give them what they want once you explain to them that maintenance costs will be X number of dollars. They usually won't blink an eye.

    Sometimes one of their bottles of wine cost more than a condensing unit.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Posts
    14
    Best advice one could ever give on a wine cellar. Kudos! Look people, it is a refrigerated space. Treat it as such or when be very afraid of the trial lawyers.

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