Big Company VS smaller controls contactor

[reissman]

How many of you controls guys have gone from a big controls company Like Big Red or Big Blue and then to a smaller place? Or possibly the other way around? Pro's cons? Now with the Niagara platform competition is even greater and the players are numerous. Specifically for you guys who have been around for many years and are at the end of your careers. What would you have done different?

I know a guy who retired from one of the big guys last year and is now helping an independent get started as an ACS contractor. The perception was this place wasn't a threat, well now he is telling a different story. He is saying they have their stuff together, are investing in the controls business hard and could take a major market share.I probably have 20 more years in this game and don't want to be at the end and have the "wish I would have's"

On one hand I can be happy with a good paycheck and some semblance of security and "HOPEFULLY" the retirement that is promised now will be there at the end, but who knows. I still qualify for a retirement plan on top of my 401K but who knows?

On the other hand it would seem exciting to get with some guys that don't have all the red tape and cumbersome process. A place where there is actually chance for sharing in the profits if I work hard enough, rather than being told "your incentive is you have a job" and there are no salary increases this year. Makes me want to quit on the spot! I am concerned its taking my initiative away. So many guys i know get over 50 and their attitude sucks, all they want to do is make it retirement. I don't want to end up like that.

Just looking for opinions. Thanks

[dgruber]

I have over 30 Years experience.

I would love to start over with a Progressive Firm to enhance their goals and have the opportunity for continued education advancement!

So if a smaller firm had a interest, I would be very interested!

[osiyo]

How many of you controls guys have gone from a big controls company Like Big Red or Big Blue and then to a smaller place? Or possibly the other way around? Pro's cons?

Well, I haven't really gone from a big CONTROLS company on to a smaller one.

But I have gone from working for a large organization (U.S.Navy, for 23 years), to working for a somewhat smaller but still large organization (a major telecom, for 10 years), on to working for what one might describe as a medium sized outfit ... which is now where I work, for about the past 10 years. It's a mechanical - electrical outfit, with a total of several hundred employees. And within it, they have a BAS controls group ... and an Industrial Controls group. Each of which operates pretty much as a separate, independent business entity.

Each of which is not all that large, 30 - 40 people each. Which includes everyone from "The Big Boss", to salesmen, project managers, engineers, technicians, installers, admin staff/office workers, etc.

<Shrug> There have been pros and cons to working for each sized outfit.

Speaking only about what my experience has been.

With the larger organizations, definite pros were ...

(1) They were willing and able to expend more training money on the guy at the field level.

(2) Yah got to play with lots of bigger stuff, more diverse stuff, and more complex projects/installations.

(3) You had more resources to draw upon. More money to spend on tools, materials, and equipment. Loads of peers, engineers, and so forth with particular/special sorts of knowledge, experience, and skills you could tap for advice/help/assistance.

(4) You job/position was usually more stable and secure. Oh, you could lose it. But lets face it, smaller players tend to knuckle under and go out of business more often. Or get bought up.

(5) Your position, job description, what was expected of you, etc tended to be defined more explicitly. Both a pro and a con. A pro because with larger organizations the scope and responsibilities of your position tended to be more specialized and narrow. As in, "THIS is what I do, THAT is someone else's job and responsibility." But that was also a con since the scope of your work duties and responsibilities were more limited.

Etc.

As for the cons of larger organizations ... that's been discussed to death many times. We're all pretty familiar with them.

Now, with the at least somewhat smaller outfit I now work for I see the pros as ....

(1) More flexibility in precisely what I do and how I do it. There isn't some massive rule book, or volume of rule books, that define endless trivia and details about what I can or can not do, how I MUST do this or that, etc. I can get on with a job, doing it how I see best in the given situation. Without worrying so much about not only is whatever gonna work right and properly, and does it also conform to applicable city/ county/ state/ federal safety standards and codes, etc ... BUT also having to deal with making sure I didn't violate any one of countless little rules, required steps, etc listed in the organization's own, in-house, 20 volume set of rules, regulations, and guidelines about everything from dress code issues, to precisely what paperwork forms were required (and how to fill them out) for each and every action you take in a day, etc.

(2) Decision making, and the ability to act/react to a problem or issue that crops up, as they do, which wasn't planned for, or is an exception to the rule, and so forth is faster and easier. It's usually nothing more than a short phone call directly to someone who has the authority to say "Yea" or "Nay". If I even need to do that. Most often I don't, unless its a major expenditure of time and money. I'm just held responsible for ensuring that documentation is updated to reflect reality, copies of any program changes get into our master project file, etc.

(3) The various job descriptions, duties and responsibilities, etc are NOT so narrowly defined. In short, you are less of a specialist and get to do a wider range of stuff. I like that.

(4) You get more face time with those above you, up the ladder. You get a chance to better communicate with them. They get to hear your thoughts and ideas directly, and you get to hear theirs.

On the other hand it would seem exciting to get with some guys that don't have all the red tape and cumbersome process. A place where there is actually chance for sharing in the profits if I work hard enough, rather than being told "your incentive is you have a job" and there are no salary increases this year. Makes me want to quit on the spot! I am concerned its taking my initiative away. So many guys i know get over 50 and their attitude sucks, all they want to do is make it retirement. I don't want to end up like that.

Just looking for opinions. Thanks

You mean guys who've taken the ROAD option? As we used to call it in the Navy. (ROAD = Retired On Active Duty)

Meaning they were just going through the motions. Attempting to do the least they could get by with, taking no chances, not rocking the boat ... just trying to go day by day looking only at the end of the road ... retirement.

<Shrug> Yah can do that. It's understandable.

Myself, I try not to think about such things. I've got a job, my focus is upon doing it as well as I can every day. Which includes both satisfying the customer, and the folks for whom I work. Wanting nothing more than at the end of the day ... I know I did the best I could, and take pride in that.

The rest of it? Who knows? There are no guarantees in life. None, zip, nadda.

To me, its not important that anyone else recognize my accomplishments. Its only important that -I- know that I've done my best, and what I thought to be the right thing.

I remember something Admiral Rickover once said. Actually, he said similar things on any number of occasions.

"When doing a job—any job—one must feel that he owns it, and act as though he will remain in the job forever. He must look after his work just as conscientiously, as though it were his own business and his own money. If he feels he is only a temporary custodian, or that the job is just a stepping stone to a higher position, his actions will not take into account the long-term interests of the organization. His lack of commitment to the present job will be perceived by those who work for him, and they, likewise, will tend not to care. Too many spend their entire working lives looking for their next job. When one feels he owns his present job and acts that way, he need have no concern about his next job."

I try to follow his sentiments.

I worry about what I do, not what others do. I have no control over them, just my own actions.

[reissman]

Well, I haven't really gone from a big CONTROLS company on to a smaller one.

But I have gone from working for a large organization (U.S.Navy, for 23 years)

Yeah, I did 8 years active duty AF and have been in the Air Guard for 10. I understand the military box oh to well. In fact the way I felt before I left active duty is the same way I am feeling now. When I left active duty I started at the company I work for 3 months later, its been 13 yrs. It used to be about once or twice a year I would feel like this but now its all the time..I always tell wife on the outside I look like everything is good but on the inside there is a little guy running around that wants to go cRaZy! LOL

[fms2k]

Dude,

Been in the controls game almost 30 years.
Worked for JCI & Siemens, a $60 million mechanical
contractor (union) that is a Honeywell ACS & a $2.5
million mechanical/hvac/electrical contractor (union)
that I started up the controls department for.

The JCI branch I worked for was a joke, revolving
door on the front of the building. Siemens branch
was great because upper management team had an
average of 30 years experience with the company
and really knew what they were doing. Company
policy & procedures were a little stiffling, though.

Never had as much fun, or satisfaction, as I got
working for the little guy. If you like the challenge
of building something from the ground up and oc-
casionally beating the "big guys" at their own game
then go "small", especially if you can have a hand in
building it.

This type of opportunity will probably put the spark
back into it for you.

[miller_elex]

I noticed the big revolving door on the front of where I work too.

Seems to be alot of bad eggs being pushed out the door, and a few good eggs walk out because the bad eggs stunk the place up. I just keep my head down, and the nose to the grindstone.

With the exception of a few talented pros, its one big circle-jerk of turds shuffling from branch to branch.

How do you tell if the new guy is just a paper-tiger who leaves a wake of misery behind him in this business? By the time you figured it out, its too late?

[picnik]

Working for one of the big boys is "comfortable". You get to do big jobs, lots of time to get it working, no real pressure as it can usually be passed up the line.

Working for smaller companies is more demanding, pressurisized, but ultimatley more rewarding.

I spent 15 years at Siemens starting as a trainee (Staefa as it was) and now I have moved to a smaller company I see how much wastage there is in these big corporate machines. Its also so hard to make a difference in these big organisations you can get demoralized and just do the day to day work, trudging on until you retire.

Make the move and put a bit of excitement back in your life!

[reissman]

Working for one of the big boys is "comfortable". You get to do big jobs, lots of time to get it working, no real pressure as it can usually be passed up the line.

Working for smaller companies is more demanding, pressurisized, but ultimatley more rewarding.

We never have time. It seems like there is more and more pressure every year. Right now we have to run as lean as we can to compete with the places that have less overheard. That's the real issue, there is so much over head built into the jobs to pay the corporate pockets. But, management is always crying about our salaries.

[SuperDuperTech]

I would jump at a oppertunity to work for a Johnson Controls office. I have been with a ABCS for a few years now and would like to mix in with the bigger boys.

[osiyo]

We never have time. It seems like there is more and more pressure every year. Right now we have to run as lean as we can to compete with the places that have less overheard. That's the real issue, there is so much over head built into the jobs to pay the corporate pockets. But, management is always crying about our salaries.

Is there anyone in business these days who is not having to trim overhead costs as much as possible?

We're a union shop, so perhaps the hourly wage of the workers is higher than that of many of our competitors.

But even our better, non-union, competitors are having a hard time of it. As many of them are being undercut by shops ... whose final product isn't quite so good and whose reputations aren't so clean ... but they're cheaper and their labor is cheaper. (And they're not above cutting corners here and there)

As concerns profits for the company/corporation ... I know that for several, including the one I work for ... profit margins are slim, mighty slim.

As is the case with many of us, I know quite a few folks who work for competitors in our area. As near as I can determine, they're all pretty much in the same boat.

More than just a few are operating on a "just pay the bills" basis, breaking even on expenses with nothing or next to nothing in profits for owners/stockholders. Just hanging on in the hopes and expectations that the economy will improve and things pick up before the owners/stock holders give up and shut the doors. Or at least shut down the controls part of their operations.

We're turning a net profit at years end, but its not much. Not even close to what it used to be. Even with all the economy steps we've employed to become slimmer, trimmer, and more efficient.

[freddy-b]

The way the big boys fumble technically at every turn... combined with their all-mighty business models...Its like taking candy from a big baby. Its fun too.

[fms2k]

freddy-b,

hit the nail square on the head with your comment -
especially the "it's fun too" part.

[xarralu]

With the larger organizations, definite pros were ...

(1) They were willing and able to expend more training money on the guy at the field level.

This past Friday I had a frustrating day just because of pure IGNORANCE. I wish I had some kind of official training instead of "learning on the job". I work for a dealer that is less than 30 total employees so the training is nil.