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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    7

    UNT141 Comm Problem

    I have a brand new UNT141-1 Rev H and I'm using HVACPro Vers 8.08 to try and access it. The green Z Bus light blinks really, really fast as soon as I power the controller and when I try to connect with HVACPro, I get a message "Communications not initialized" This is the 2nd new controller I've tried. Any help?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,324
    You must have 8.08B to use usb adapter.
    UA Local 141

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    18
    The only usb adapter that would work with the cable-pro that I was using was the Digi adapter. After that no problems.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Posts
    584
    Quote Originally Posted by berg2666 View Post
    You must have 8.08B to use usb adapter.
    Good day,

    This version may be true for JCI supplied USB adapters with their CVTPro's, however, our USB to N2/RS232 Converter (S2USB485) has been working with HVACPro since version 8.04b (circa 2004).

    Cheers,

    Sam

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,324
    Quote Originally Posted by s2sam View Post
    Good day,

    This version may be true for JCI supplied USB adapters with their CVTPro's, however, our USB to N2/RS232 Converter (S2USB485) has been working with HVACPro since version 8.04b (circa 2004).

    Cheers,

    Sam
    Good sales pitch!!!!!!!!
    UA Local 141

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Posts
    584
    Quote Originally Posted by berg2666 View Post
    Good sales pitch!!!!!!!!
    Good day,

    You liked that eh ? All kidding aside, it wasn't meant as a sales pitch. I see and hear a number of people commenting how "Company X" product is the only one that works with HVACpro, etc and I just wanted the information to be correct and to set the record straight...we had the first USB to N2 (and RS232) interface to work consistently and reliably with HVACPro since 2004. We are a small manufacturer and so our egos bruise easily

    Cheers,

    Sam

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by s2sam View Post
    Good day,

    You liked that eh ? All kidding aside, it wasn't meant as a sales pitch. I see and hear a number of people commenting how "Company X" product is the only one that works with HVACpro, etc and I just wanted the information to be correct and to set the record straight...we had the first USB to N2 (and RS232) interface to work consistently and reliably with HVACPro since 2004. We are a small manufacturer and so our egos bruise easily

    Cheers,

    Sam
    But you always fail to mention that your box has no zone bus. Which is a deal killer for 90% of the market.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Posts
    584
    Quote Originally Posted by freddy-b View Post
    But you always fail to mention that your box has no zone bus. Which is a deal killer for 90% of the market.
    Good day Freddy,

    It has been my experience that most people use the N2 bus for communication and so commenting on Zonebus (ZB) is erroneous. If someone asks for Zonebus support, I am the first to say that we do not support Zonebus. We could develop a Zonebus interface (in fact JCI asked us about this a few years ago), but I have yet to see a a real need for it. We receive maybe 1 call out of 300 or so that need Zonebus. On a secondary note, JCI themselves is our largest customer for our S2USB485 device and their techs do not seem to mind that we do not support Zonebus... it would be nice if it did, but it is not a deal breaker. Now, to be fair, I would imagine that the JCI Techs have their CVTPro for ZB, but is is very interesting that they prefer our device for N2 than their own corporate product.

    As for your comment of ZB needed for 90% of the market... Personally, I think you have this reversed with N2... at least given the countless discussions I have had with JCI branches throughout US, Canada, Mexico, and Singapore and with independents everywhere.

    That being said, if you need ZB then the CVTPro is what you must use. If you are happy with the CVTPro or some other product for N2, then great use whatever suits your needs and/or budget. My original comments in this thread and other threads relating to USB to N2 via HVACPro is that there are other options available and historically our device has been there before they were.

    Cheers,

    Sam

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by s2sam View Post
    Good day Freddy,

    It has been my experience that most people use the N2 bus for communication and so commenting on Zonebus (ZB) is erroneous. If someone asks for Zonebus support, I am the first to say that we do not support Zonebus. We could develop a Zonebus interface (in fact JCI asked us about this a few years ago), but I have yet to see a a real need for it. We receive maybe 1 call out of 300 or so that need Zonebus. On a secondary note, JCI themselves is our largest customer for our S2USB485 device and their techs do not seem to mind that we do not support Zonebus... it would be nice if it did, but it is not a deal breaker. Now, to be fair, I would imagine that the JCI Techs have their CVTPro for ZB, but is is very interesting that they prefer our device for N2 than their own corporate product.

    As for your comment of ZB needed for 90% of the market... Personally, I think you have this reversed with N2... at least given the countless discussions I have had with JCI branches throughout US, Canada, Mexico, and Singapore and with independents everywhere.

    That being said, if you need ZB then the CVTPro is what you must use. If you are happy with the CVTPro or some other product for N2, then great use whatever suits your needs and/or budget. My original comments in this thread and other threads relating to USB to N2 via HVACPro is that there are other options available and historically our device has been there before they were.

    Cheers,

    Sam
    OK I will revise my statement.

    But you always fail to mention that your box has no zone bus. Which is a deal killer for 90% of JCI/N2/average Joe Shmo Service Tech market.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Posts
    584
    Quote Originally Posted by freddy-b View Post
    OK I will revise my statement.

    But you always fail to mention that your box has no zone bus. Which is a deal killer for 90% of JCI/N2/average Joe Shmo Service Tech market.
    Good day Freddy,

    No, I do not fail to mention that we do not support ZB... In all of my responding posts in other threads, it (ZB requirement) has never been mentioned. If it was, then I would be the first to say that we do not support ZB. All of the S2USB485 documents clearly state that we do not support ZB. How clear can I make it? Sadly, your statement has a slight "slant" that I am somehow "glossing" over ZB support and I take offense to that. This is absolutely not true and totally unfounded. If the original poster's intent was problems with ZB (although he did mention the ZB light blinking, but I interpreted this as the UNT "Alive" LED), then I apologize for the confusion and my original post.

    As for a deal killer statement... Then your area of the country must be totally unique, as this has not been my experience... not by a long shot. However, like I said earlier, use whatever tool you want... If you need ZB, then you must use the CVTPro, full stop. If I saw a reasonable need for ZB, the I would develop a ZB product... but I just do not see it.

    As for the JCI/N2/average Joe Shmo Service Tech market that must use the CVTPro then you better buy two as they tend to not last too long...

    Cheers,

    Sam

  11. #11
    Zone Bus comes in handy. I don't get where you dont see the value?

    AHU Controllers wiring base comes to mind. Dragging your laptop to the ceiling "wherever it may be" over desk..a patient bed....25 ft' in the rafters..no need to find power/extension cords/ladders..etc...etc......when there is a perfectly good metastat with zone bus at 5' to do most things you need to do.

    As for the CVTpro...the newer Digi Style..although pricey and humongous ..has been reliable enough.
    Ya..the older little ones were crap.

    Although CVTpro cost more ..you carry one device. and don't worry about powering it when using the zone bus. Lets say you can find a old cable pro (that wont be free either) to carry....thats two devices to carry around in a already full and expanding daily tool set.

    I am not trying to be a a-hole....Its just the way I see it. I have no idea where you did your market study?...but I bet anyone here with N2 experience will tell you the benefits of zone bus in many situations.. in a device such as yours.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Posts
    584
    Quote Originally Posted by freddy-b View Post
    Zone Bus comes in handy. I don't get where you dont see the value?

    AHU Controllers wiring base comes to mind. Dragging your laptop to the ceiling "wherever it may be" over desk..a patient bed....25 ft' in the rafters..no need to find power/extension cords/ladders..etc...etc......when there is a perfectly good metastat with zone bus at 5' to do most things you need to do.

    As for the CVTpro...the newer Digi Style..although pricey and humongous ..has been reliable enough.
    Ya..the older little ones were crap.

    Although CVTpro cost more ..you carry one device. and don't worry about powering it when using the zone bus. Lets say you can find a old cable pro (that wont be free either) to carry....thats two devices to carry around in a already full and expanding daily tool set.

    I am not trying to be a a-hole....Its just the way I see it. I have no idea where you did your market study?...but I bet anyone here with N2 experience will tell you the benefits of zone bus in many situations.. in a device such as yours.
    Good day Freddy,

    Indeed ZB is very handy and at times necessary if you cannot get access to the N2 bus or if the N2 Bus is not accessible (can someone say finished ceilings?). I am not saying that it is not needed, but in the last 6 years the need via phone calls, e-mails, and just general chatting with people, the demand has not been very high. Like I said, maybe 1 in 300 or so...or let's be even more generous and say 1/100. It is hard for a small firm (we are not even a rounding error to a rounding error to a rounding error to JCI or other big firms) to amortize the Design, Development, and Support costs over such a small market. Remember, too, once we release a product we are there for the long haul. We even support our systems that we developed in the mid-90's. In fact, two of our discontinued products were are still supporting in order to help our customer toward a transition (in one case we are actually designing a new piece of hardware just for them).

    So, where does it leave us? Since we are a small firm, it is best for us to focus our resources on future technologies in order to better amortize our R&D costs so that we can offer great products for great prices (like HMI interfaces for 1/3 the price of similar products...this is not meant as a sales pitch, but as a dramatic comparison). Unfortunately ZB has a limited life, as is evidenced by no ZB in the newer products. If it were possible for us to update the S2USB485 to include ZB, then maybe we could offer it (in fact we were talking to JCI about doing this in 2005 until a JCI higher-up killed the project/discussions). The issue here is that there is virtually no room on the printed circuit board (PCB) for additional circuitry and connectoring for ZB... so this would mean new mechanicals (enclosures, endplates, etc)... so in essence a virtually new design.

    Secondly, because the ZB service tool market is already served by the CVTPro, the ability to penetrate it would be challenging (a number of people already have CVTPro's)... so a double whammy with regards to recovering the R&D costs.

    As for the latest CVTPro and its quality, hard to say where its at. I still receive calls from people that have CVTPro door stops that JCI fails to warranty. Are these the new ones or old ones? I do not know. All I know is that I still supply our product to JCI branches and techs everywhere.

    Anyway, I am in complete agreement with you that ZB has its place and hopefully you can see why we have not created a suitable ZB supported product. If there is a need, then I would suggest everyone to send e-mails to our company and perhaps this will encourage us to create a ZB based device.

    Cheers,

    Sam

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    269
    Except for VMA's .... I use zone bus where ever I can.
    No need for external power. Easier access. Another disadvantage of using N2 is that the supervisory device NCM or NAE has to be disconnected from the N2 bus.... this does not always go over very well.

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