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  1. #1
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    reliance motor oil flows

    Trane Types

    I want to check the oil flow on the thrust drain on a 3 wheel Trane with a reliance motor. I pulled out CTV-SB-13B and the Flow rates listed are for Louis Allis motors. That bulletin was listed as a 1985 date code and this motor is a 1989 machine. Anyone have a bulletin with this vintage on min and max oil flows?


    Thanks

    R404a

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    366
    I bleive that the first year of the Reliance in the CVHE was 1987.
    I can't locate data on the flow rates.
    Have you tried calling the motor shop at Service First.
    Just courious, why do you want to check the flow on the ball bearings.

  3. #3
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    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by triggerhappy View Post
    ...
    Just courious, why do you want to check the flow on the ball bearings.

    and HOW would you? the oil flow on a running bearing would be different than a sitting bearing.
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  4. #4
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    and HOW would you? the oil flow on a running bearing would be different than a sitting bearing.
    He would have to have the motor running to check the flow.

    I use to do that on every sidewinder and double ender that I rebuilt. Quite a pain in the ass.

    Early on it was recommended on the CVHEs, you would have to cut the oil return lines to take the readings.

    I would be much more interested in the flows off the babbit bearings as a rule.
    That is why I asked what had him interested in getting the reading from the ball brg.

    I guess that you know there is a new bearing design to use in the non center feed castings.(cage design)

    I still feel sure that the information can be obtained from motor shop at Service First.(on the flows)

    I don't even both with the flows on the sidewinders and double enders anymore.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    In a Pineapple Under the Sea
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    I guess you would have to air run the chiller with to oil return line cut to collect and measure the oil, but why ?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doesn'tPhaseMe View Post
    I guess you would have to air run the chiller with to oil return line cut to collect and measure the oil, but why ?
    Exactly, this was used after overhauls, this would let you know if you collected X pints per min. that your bearing clearances where good. I've never done this, but I've known of guys who, at the time, liked it. I guess you could've done it as test too, if bearing issues were considered. I've never heard of this being updated.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis.

  7. #7
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    thanks for the replies. I have reason to suspect that the journal is infact worn and I have to pull the elbow to runout the 1st wheel. I am pretty sure I have mechanical rubbing in the chiller and noticed what LOOKED like excessive oil flow on the thrust. I have to pull the gas anyway, so I would like to flow check the bearing.trigger, when you say service first, are you refering to charlotte anbd if so, I wonder if contractors can call them?


    r404a

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    366
    Quote Originally Posted by r404a View Post
    thanks for the replies. I have reason to suspect that the journal is infact worn and I have to pull the elbow to runout the 1st wheel. I am pretty sure I have mechanical rubbing in the chiller and noticed what LOOKED like excessive oil flow on the thrust. I have to pull the gas anyway, so I would like to flow check the bearing.trigger, when you say service first, are you refering to charlotte anbd if so, I wonder if contractors can call them?

    r404a
    I beleive that contractors should be able to call and get technical information from them.(I can not swear to that but I guess it depends on you powers of persuasion to some extent as to how fast you get the information)

    In the case that you described may I suggest putting the vibration gear on the chiller and doing a vibration analysis. That should tell you everthing you need to know about both bearings, without pulling the gas.

    Also oil analysis to check for babbit wear. If you have had oil loss you may have big chuncks that you can see in filter but Chem. Lab will not recognize as they are looking for ppm.

    As for the oil flow on the thrust; This is where you are confusing me as the trust bearing in a CVHE\CVHF is in fact the ball brg. and the oil flow is set by the orifice and not the clearance on the brg. like the sleeve brg.

  9. #9
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    Jan 2010
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    R404a- If you check the runout of the 1st impeller all that will tell you is if the shaft is bent or the surface you are checking is out of round. If the journal bearing is bad allowing the shaft to drop but your shaft is still true I would expect to still get a good runout.

    I agree with Triggerhappy on everything, vibration and oil analysis, that can give you very conclusive results, without digging into the chiller first. Also oil flow is metered by an orifice to the thrust bearings so unless its clogged there is no sense is worrying about it.

    If the thrust bearings start to wear they will allow movement of the shaft on the compressor side as the shaft will act like a seesaw with the journal bearing your center point. Vibration analysis will pick this up too.

    Also not sure if non Trane personal can call tech service anymore. They did change all their phone numbers a couple years ago.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Nunya
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doesn'tPhaseMe View Post
    R404a- If you check the runout of the 1st impeller all that will tell you is if the shaft is bent or the surface you are checking is out of round. If the journal bearing is bad allowing the shaft to drop but your shaft is still true I would expect to still get a good runout.

    I agree with Triggerhappy on everything, vibration and oil analysis, that can give you very conclusive results, without digging into the chiller first. Also oil flow is metered by an orifice to the thrust bearings so unless its clogged there is no sense is worrying about it.

    If the thrust bearings start to wear they will allow movement of the shaft on the compressor side as the shaft will act like a seesaw with the journal bearing your center point. Vibration analysis will pick this up too.

    Also not sure if non Trane personal can call tech service anymore. They did change all their phone numbers a couple years ago.



    I agree with Trigger and DoesntPhaseme, Get your oil sample sent out first that will tell you all you need to know about your journal bearing wear,I know not everybody has access or the training on vibration analysis equipment , but if you are going to work on these machines man does it make your life easy. We take vib readings on all our machines annually and that info goes into a database to track how these machines are running. Really a great tool.

  11. #11
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    Oct 2003
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    tidewater, va
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    2,145
    appreciate the inputs from all


    r404a

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