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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    160

    Hmm Trane Tracer Help

    Hey guys. I have a 20 year od building we are looking at retrofitting. It was built with what appears to be a very early generation Trane tracer system. Very old slide in cards located in what appears to be the front end. It does have hyperterminal access at least.

    My question... The package units we are retrofitting. Along with that will be a new front end. If we simply remove the tracer frnt end from the 60 some vav's, what will they do? That is to be their second phase of work. Do they stay occupied? Unoccupied? dead to the world?

    Just trying to get a feel for what potentilly could happen.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    35
    They could just go into question mark on control screen. We also have a building with the tracer controls. Every time we have power down produces a question mark on screen. Could do the same in this case or bad senser no communication. I hope this helps a little just giving u ideas.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    160
    Do you know if the VAV's wouild still work without the front end?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    35
    I believe the fans would still run like maybee in default setting but no communication to control anything. Because I have seen question marks on the summit control screens and the fan still running.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    29
    It will maintain all of the settings from the last command and will still work normally.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    29
    another thing to think about is that calibration will no longer take place so the damper and the air flow could get offline over time without the front end

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    527
    I did one similiar to this that was Tracer100 a couple years ago. You may have TracerL. They planned on phasing the VAV's [200+] in, but havent yet. We left the Tracer100 in place so they could still see/adjust the VAV's.

    The VAV's are probally connected to the Tracer100 thru a Command Unit. A Command Unit is similiar to a BIC [Binary Input Controller].

    I set the Command Units to LOCAL mode versus Tracer. Then used the DI's on the Command Unit so the VAV's knew the mode of operation [Heat/Cool, Occupied/Unoccupied & Calibration].

    It has been working great, but there is still two front-ends ... ComfortView & Hyperterminal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Jinn (Star Wars Episode 1)
    "The ablilty to speak does not make you intelligent!"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    160
    Ok, thats what I will probably end up doing. I will most likely re-locate the main panel for the old vav's and install our new gear on the air handlers through a new bus.

    Like I was saying. They want to do the second phase, but if i remove the front end all together, I do not want the vav's to just stop or go un occupied. They have not interfaced the hyperterminal in over two years and are not planning to because of the retrofit. My original idead was to just cut the head end out and have the vav's run stand alone. But I realize not all systems can do that.

    Thanks

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    527
    The vav's dont wire directly back to the main panel. The command unit is the interface to the main panel. If they are not worried about the current access, you can kill the main panel.

    After you pull the main panel, the vav's will run stand-alone. If you are worried about occupancy, air source modes or calibration of the vav's. Your new ems can command the vav's thru the command unit with dry contacts. You can even access the vav's with hyperterminal thru the command unit without the main panel.

    I have some old literature from the one I did, I will dig it up tomorrow & send it to ya.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Jinn (Star Wars Episode 1)
    "The ablilty to speak does not make you intelligent!"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by Balibe View Post
    The vav's dont wire directly back to the main panel. The command unit is the interface to the main panel. If they are not worried about the current access, you can kill the main panel.

    After you pull the main panel, the vav's will run stand-alone. If you are worried about occupancy, air source modes or calibration of the vav's. Your new ems can command the vav's thru the command unit with dry contacts. You can even access the vav's with hyperterminal thru the command unit without the main panel.

    I have some old literature from the one I did, I will dig it up tomorrow & send it to ya.
    That would be awsome. Thanks for the heads up.

    I did see panels maybe 10" by 10" on each floor that appeared to connect the primary bus to what looks like a secondary bus on each floor. This is what you are talking about right?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    527
    Sounds like them ...

    I emailed you 2 PDF's. One is an install for the first version. The other is an IOP for the second version. Although newer, the setup & programming is similair.

    First version had a 25pin RS-232 connector, just need a null modem cable to interface. The second has a RJ-11 RS-232 connector, the IOP shows the pin-out.

    On page 5-8 of the IOP, it explains the Tracer vs Local Control. Page 5-9 explains the Binary Inputs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Jinn (Star Wars Episode 1)
    "The ablilty to speak does not make you intelligent!"

  12. #12
    1

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by Balibe View Post
    Sounds like them ...

    I emailed you 2 PDF's. One is an install for the first version. The other is an IOP for the second version. Although newer, the setup & programming is similair.

    First version had a 25pin RS-232 connector, just need a null modem cable to interface. The second has a RJ-11 RS-232 connector, the IOP shows the pin-out.

    On page 5-8 of the IOP, it explains the Tracer vs Local Control. Page 5-9 explains the Binary Inputs.
    It looks like I have the first version at this building. Thanks for the pdf's. Best I can see is that we should still be operable without the front end to the vav's. They haven't had a terminal or used it in at least a year.

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