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  1. #1
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    Apr 2008
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    Confused Trane Summit Bacnet interface to JCI

    Gentlemen,

    I'm working on a project that requires an existing campus multi-site Trane Summit System to integrate to a new building's JCI system. I received help from a few people on here regarding Trane literature which has really helped me understand Trane's System.

    The campus has multiple BCUs and I need advice on how to bring over JCI pts via BACNET/IP to the Summit PC Workstation. The new building requires over 170 controllers (furnishing FX LON controllers). The equipment involves about 170 unit ventilators with a chilled & hot water plant. Each UV has 8-I/O pts and the plant about 35-points (total of roughly 1400 pts) which need to be readable/writeable by the Summit System.

    Would it be best or is it possible to:

    1) Provide multiple BCUs to accommodate JCI LON controllers connected to BCU LonTalk comm5 link (I believe an enhanced BCU excepts up to 40-generic LON devices therefore would require 5-BCUs).

    2) Provide a single or multiple BCUs in order to create internal binary & analog values which shall be used to translate Bacnet points imported from
    2-FX60s which connect the 170+ JCI FX LON controllers.

    3) Is #2 totally necessary or could I just create non-Trane devices (2-FX60s) under Summit Site Configuration? Would all of the 170+ FX LON field controller information auto-discover once the scan was performed?

    Please expand on what you believe to be the best option. How many BCUs would be required? How would existing schedules be applied to the JCI controllers? Would graphic implementation be difficult in Summit?

    Any immediate help would be appreciated. Thank you!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    732
    What version summit? You should look at upgrading to v17 with latest SP and updating your BCU's regardless of what route you take to handle the lon or the bacnet. Or if you are at v16 the latest SP is a must.

    1) Never heard of a 40 GLD limit. If the lon controllers follow the SCC profile you can add them as a SCC device and they will come in similar to a Trane SCC device, they will just have a generic graphic opposed to a Trane generated one. If they do have SCC then you can have 120 units per BCU.

    3) Supposedly you can have unlimited amount of points in your NTO file. The points should come in just fine long as the fx60 is programmed well. Would watch out for naming conventions, you could get 160 points called Space Temp depending on how fx60 exports its points. Then you will have to edit the NTO yourself to add unit labels.

    Schedules shouldn't be hard with option 1. Option 3 will require a great deal of CPL and BO's to correctly control them.

    Graphics shouldn't be hard with option 1. Option 3 will require a crap load of time because a graphics will have to be made for each unit manually.

    I would do option 1 "IF" they come into the BCU easily, i would do a test first though, see if you can get your hands on one of the JCI lon controllers and throw it on a existing BCU and see how well it comes in. If you cant do that then you are running in the dark. Could be a disaster.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Northeast
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrooloose View Post
    What version summit? You should look at upgrading to v17 with latest SP and updating your BCU's regardless of what route you take to handle the lon or the bacnet. Or if you are at v16 the latest SP is a must.

    1) Never heard of a 40 GLD limit. If the lon controllers follow the SCC profile you can add them as a SCC device and they will come in similar to a Trane SCC device, they will just have a generic graphic opposed to a Trane generated one. If they do have SCC then you can have 120 units per BCU.

    3) Supposedly you can have unlimited amount of points in your NTO file. The points should come in just fine long as the fx60 is programmed well. Would watch out for naming conventions, you could get 160 points called Space Temp depending on how fx60 exports its points. Then you will have to edit the NTO yourself to add unit labels.

    Schedules shouldn't be hard with option 1. Option 3 will require a great deal of CPL and BO's to correctly control them.

    Graphics shouldn't be hard with option 1. Option 3 will require a crap load of time because a graphics will have to be made for each unit manually.

    I would do option 1 "IF" they come into the BCU easily, i would do a test first though, see if you can get your hands on one of the JCI lon controllers and throw it on a existing BCU and see how well it comes in. If you cant do that then you are running in the dark. Could be a disaster.
    Thanks Scrooloose,

    Option#1) What do you mean by SCC profile? Is there anyway to determine this by way of literature? Based on your suggestions, it appears option#1 would definitely be the best route (would need 2-BCUs).

    Option#3) You say option#3 would require a lot of time due to schedules and graphics. Since most of the job involves one type of equipment, would this still be a doable option? Couldn't one or two created BCU "BOs" be used globally to map for scheduling or would each JCI device require separate "BOs"? Could the graphic be copied as well for similar pieces of equipment?

    **What effect does upgrading software/SP and BCUs have on this job? I believe V15 or V17 exists...not sure of SP. I would furnishing 2-dedicated BMTW or BMTX BCUs for this project.

    Thanks for your help!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    732
    Who is doing the programming? Are you doing it or are you doing preliminary investigation for your company. Now dont get me wrong I am not trying to be rude but what you are describing doing in these buildings is pretty intensive even for a veteran programmer due to all the trick and tweaks that will need to be done to get it to work (CPL, graphics, IO's, everything). If you dont have someone who is seasoned then you are going to be under water real fast.

    That being said find out the specific lon controller you have and maybe start a new thread on here asking if it supports SCC since i am not familiar with JCI

    Depends on how you want to split out the schedules. You want one schedule for all 160 then only need one BO and one schedule and bunch of CPL (last I tried you cant add NTO objects to a schedule, why the CPL is needed).

    Graphics for option 3 have to be point mapped individually. Yes you can make a template and then copy and point map each unit, but you are still talking 5-10 min a graphic on average. That could be couple days worth of graphics.

    There is huge difference between v15 and v17. Specifically you need v16 or v17 at latest SP because it allows read and writing of multi-state io's. Which you have a good chance of having depending on what JCI outputs via Bacnet. Plus latest version are just more robust as with any software you buy.

    Price of a BMTX will be 3rd what a BMTW is so unless you have one laying around go with the X.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrooloose View Post
    Who is doing the programming? Are you doing it or are you doing preliminary investigation for your company. Now dont get me wrong I am not trying to be rude but what you are describing doing in these buildings is pretty intensive even for a veteran programmer due to all the trick and tweaks that will need to be done to get it to work (CPL, graphics, IO's, everything). If you dont have someone who is seasoned then you are going to be under water real fast.

    That being said find out the specific lon controller you have and maybe start a new thread on here asking if it supports SCC since i am not familiar with JCI

    Depends on how you want to split out the schedules. You want one schedule for all 160 then only need one BO and one schedule and bunch of CPL (last I tried you cant add NTO objects to a schedule, why the CPL is needed).

    Graphics for option 3 have to be point mapped individually. Yes you can make a template and then copy and point map each unit, but you are still talking 5-10 min a graphic on average. That could be couple days worth of graphics.

    There is huge difference between v15 and v17. Specifically you need v16 or v17 at latest SP because it allows read and writing of multi-state io's. Which you have a good chance of having depending on what JCI outputs via Bacnet. Plus latest version are just more robust as with any software you buy.

    Price of a BMTX will be 3rd what a BMTW is so unless you have one laying around go with the X.
    Great information and suggestions. We are doing the programming and do have extremely seasoned programmers although it will be a learning curve because of our lack of immediate knowledge of Trane's CPL. We do have the CPL manual.

    I will verify what existing Summit version & SP the customer has. I'm actually hoping the JCI FX LON controllers are SCC compliant. I will post controller literature to see if anyone can comment. It would make the job much easier since, if applicable, the LON controllers would be recognized as Trane devices under the LONtalk link comm5 (although you mention that a generic graphic would be developed.....why is that the case?)

    Thanks for the support!

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