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  1. #118
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camel City, NC
    Posts
    6,232

    Nate

    Yes
    Yes
    I'm self employed too. I have the book but haven't taken the time to read through it or take the test. Anybody can read and take a test. But there has to be some standard. I have 4 state licenses but anybody can read and take a test. Have to have 6hrs. of CE to renue them too. Got EPA cert. in 92' when people said it would never happen.
    Bryant will term a dealer ( Factory authorized service agent) if 50% of techs are Nate Cert. Does it make them more $ ? If the public thinks they are better. This discussion will go on for a while just like EPA cert. did.
    Be safe not fast. body parts don't grow back

  2. #119
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    4,264
    The bottom line is still one thing. Someone in a starched shirt preying on what they think is the stupidity of those of us who turn wrenches for a living, for their own financial gain. "Hey, most of them aren't college educated so they won't know the difference". Give it a few years and they'll come up with another program that follows the same scheme under a different title. I have never had a customer ask for my NATE or any other credentials. When you are genuine and professional your work speaks for itself. And there will be a large majority in this business who will fall for it again. I sure wish I could get a service call from one of these gold digging pinheads!
    There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action....Mark Twain

  3. #120
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,987
    Originally posted by HVAC Pro
    The bottom line is still one thing. Someone in a starched shirt preying on what they think is the stupidity of those of us who turn wrenches for a living, for their own financial gain.
    This line of thinking is roughly equivalent to the U.S. invading Iraq solely for their oil revenues.
    Originally posted by HVAC Pro
    "Hey, most of them aren't college educated so they won't know the difference".
    Having a college degree hardly guarantees competence in anything. There are a number of seasoned contractors serving on NATE technical committees who probably don't have college degrees, but they're competent in their trade, and their input is equally weighted with those serving on these committes having post graduate degrees.... ahem....
    Originally posted by HVAC Pro
    I have never had a customer ask for my NATE or any other credentials. When you are genuine and professional your work speaks for itself.
    And some day you'll figure out NATE is attempting to help the tech achieve this level. Passing a NATE test doesn't guarantee you can do quality work. But if you can't pass a NATE test, hmmmm.... you shouldn't be doing service work.

  4. #121
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,751
    Herein lies the attitude which is what most likely turns a lot of us off to nate- especially me.

    "But if you can't pass a NATE test, hmmmm.... you shouldn't be doing service work.:
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  5. #122
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    4,264
    Originally posted by DeltaT
    Herein lies the attitude which is what most likely turns a lot of us off to nate- especially me.

    "But if you can't pass a NATE test, hmmmm.... you shouldn't be doing service work.:
    Then exactly what kind of work would this entitle me? I've never had a problem acing most of the other "tests" that have come down the pike. It's just that I'm finally old enough and smart enough to know that when it quacks like a duck it most likely is one. Besides, my shirt sleeves are currently filled with silly little patches. Don't have room for any more.
    There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action....Mark Twain

  6. #123
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,751
    lmtd
    I hear you. And I fully agree that technicians should and need basic to advanced technical training before & during exposure to equipment in the field.

    But this has never been my point. My point is that their is an underlying attitude by most of nate proponents of their agenda to make this educational source as "THE" way. And behind that lies a bunch of people just waiting to chomp at the bit of controlling who and who is not qualified.

    And that is an ugly picture just waiting to be had. Still amazing me that "you", I speak in general terms here, can't see that. I think some do but side track us using a smoke screen with attempting to keep the focus on the benefits of education.

    Ever hear of a circular arguement? This is what happens most of the time on these posts with owners/technicians concerns. I have yet to see most of the proponents of nate validate the many, many concerns shown here by owners/technicians.

    So much for not getting into a discussion on this again.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  7. #124
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    forney texas
    Posts
    17,890
    No, No, Yes.

  8. #125
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,987
    Originally posted by DeltaT
    My point is that their is an underlying attitude by most of nate proponents of their agenda to make this educational source as "THE" way. And behind that lies a bunch of people just waiting to chomp at the bit of controlling who and who is not qualified.
    But somebody has to set the standards.

    We can all agree that seasoned tech who knows what's going on hardly needs to take the NATE test to prove his competence. All I contend is such an indivdual should have no difficulties passing the NATE test.

    I find it a bit amusing the complaints from individuals who have actually taken the NATE test. Let's say half of them complain it's too easy, and other tests such as the RSES CM test is a better gauge of competence.

    And the rest say it's too "confusing". Hmmmmm... I'd be interested in the questions causing confusion. Probably the electrical questions.

    But if someone asks the question: who should be defining the standards as to what an hvac service tech should know? I submit 4 choices, one correct answer:

    A. The original equipment manufacturers
    B. Stephen Hawking
    C. George Clooney
    D. Elvis Presley

  9. #126
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    forney texas
    Posts
    17,890
    I change my vote, Yes, Yes and Yes. and the original equipment manufacturers have every right in the world to want certified techs, if they continue to warranty equipment.

  10. #127
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    4,264
    Yeah I change mine too. No, No, No. What do I win.
    There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action....Mark Twain

  11. #128
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    4,264
    Originally posted by acmanko
    I change my vote, Yes, Yes and Yes. and the original equipment manufacturers have every right in the world to want certified techs, if they continue to warranty equipment.
    When EM's stop selling to anyone with a checkbook I'll buy that argument. Until then carpe diem.
    There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action....Mark Twain

  12. #129
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,751
    Andy
    See, I agree with everyone of you when it comes to education of the masses in our field. We absolutely have no disagreement there as I have stated time and time again.

    Here is what I say, shortly and as briefly as I can. Nate is not about education. It's about another layer of regulation.

    You and the other well meaning, professional instructors focus on the educational part. All well and good. But I focus on and see what is waiting behind that demonstrated beneficial sales pitch of a front. Kind of like the Trojan horse thing.

    It will turn into a form of regulation. I have no doubt.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  13. #130
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    4,264
    Originally posted by DeltaT
    It will turn into a form of regulation. I have no doubt.
    I don't think it's that strong nor ever will be. The people in this industry who are counted on to support it are too busy getting things accomplished to sit around and be wooed by these people.
    There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action....Mark Twain

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