Typical blower access for us...

[PaysonHVAC]

Now here's some typical blower access we have to deal with!
No cat walk either. You got to SQUEEZE between the panel and insulation while stradling the TRUSS's and trying NOT to crush the flex duct everywhere like a damn spagetti dinner gone wrong!






Also WATCH OUT for that brittle as hell ORANGE SPRINKLER LINE!!!! It ran right in the area you have to CRAWL through to get to the blower section at the other end!

Another tech from the company took this picture and gave it to me. He was mad he had to deal with this crap! There's No reason for any of it. but our inspectors in Phoenix MUST get paid off by the builders or something, because THIS is normal! Some are WORSE!!!
Duct strap??? We don't need any stinkin' DUCT STRAP!
Let the truss's hold it up! Floppy flop flop!

[cehs]

For the code worshipers....

Isn't is CODE that the furnace must have xxx inches of access in front of a furnace???

Turn in ALL of the subcontractors to the inspector and see who gets fined.

It appears that NOBODY cares about each other when a project is under construction.
When everything is complete, the CUSTOMER suffers financialy and the repairmen suffer with inconvenience...

just my 2 cents....

[the pipe dope]

If this unit had an Inspector within 20 miles, It should have been caught. I'm not saying that it wasn't inspected either. The City I work for prefers to get Inspectors from the trade. Some find it cheaper to hire a guy who watched his neighbor install a furnace once, and cross-train him to inspect other trades that he is even less qualified for. This is the kind of work that gets by when you have unqualified inspectors, and sometimes I'm sorry I'm a party to it all.

[rushin]

Inspectors like this say "Looks good from my desk or road."

[PaysonHVAC]

This is done daily in the cookie cutter homes in the Phoenix area. Not way out in the boonies where no one sees it.

There should be no excuse for this sh!t. But I think the inspectors MUST get paid off. What else could it be?
There's many housing tracks WORSE than what I just showed with ALL of the units installed with crappy access, etc. Oh, they get MUCH worse than this! I just don't have pictures of them. Yet.

[rebehanish]

HEY---
please do not cut into the inspectors to deep..they are not the ones doing the work..and yes there is a clearance required in front of a gas appliance of 30 inches working space or whatever the directions call for. whichever is the most restrictive---or greater will apply. Have a nice day.......

[MadeinUSA]

Look, Phoenix is requiring a sprinkler misting system so their contractors wont overheat in the attics in the dead of summer.

Gotta love the pink fiberglass for scratching the sore back on a late afternoon call.....:-)

[PaysonHVAC]

Oh you make it sound so wonderful. Actually when you break on of these lines, it doesn't give you a nice mist to cool off with. It pumps several gallons of water out into the attic while you go run frantically to find the water source. By then it's all flooded.

It hasn't happened to me yet. But I've ran over to help another tech or two right after.

Funny thing. Last Friday night I got to this call at 6PM. Went to lift the scuttle lid and had to move it sideways to clear the sprinkler line they ran over the opening!!!!
I could see the line then ran all the way down where I had to walk to the air handlers. I said F$#k this and told the H.O. about it and turned OFF her water supply before I would go up there and take ANY chances spending a late Friday night cleaning up a water mess!

They now make them install these on homes over 2000 sq feet. But can't they use better material and MAKE them do it right??? What's with them strapping it to the cat walks that FLEX while we walk on them??????? If you GET a cat walk!!! This house on Friday night had a section of cat walk made of 3/8 PLYWOOD! It flexed so much under me it almost touched the sheet rock under it!!! Talk about a surprise!
IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MadeinUSA]

delete

[Edited by madeinusa on 03-21-2004 at 06:02 PM]

[MadeinUSA]

delete

[Edited by madeinusa on 03-21-2004 at 06:02 PM]

[rushin]

payson, You sound like you allways have problems. Like the evap in the wine room.
My question is what city are you in so I know to never go there.

[PaysonHVAC]

Phoenix!

HA ha ha. Most of the sh*t we get to work on is from the ever growing TRACK (cookie cutter) homes that seem to not have to pass inspection for some reason.
I haven't figured it out.

There ARE nice installs too. Not too many compared to the thousands and thousands of NEW homes. It's the crappy ones that pi$$ me off when I have to work on them! So I come here to post them and to vent.

It's not so much me having problems fixing the crap. Most of it is easy for me. It's just annoying to just witness the hackery. Especially because the new construction part is the same company that runs the COD division I work for.
I can't just go in a house and say the install or the equipment is CRAP. Even though it is! Especially when 75% of the builders got to use cheap Goodman heat pumps. Top that off when you KNOW some installers blow and go when they got 10 houses to start a day for one guy at times! No vacuum on the splits, they just open the king valves and vent some of the air. Nice. No wonder so many Goodman comps are loud as hell and die so many agonizing deaths!

[PaysonHVAC]

Damn. I'm getting cursed with these houses with the damn sprinkler lines fastened to the cat walks! Here's another one from today!

These damn lines get brittle. Not too mention the cat walk moves so damn much when you step on them. It's scary to watch the area where the sprinkler line is flex as you walk on the cat walk!
The sprinkler line here is ran and fastened right where you need to sit in front of the air handler.

Inspectors you say? They don't care. Must be in bed with the bigger builders.



Also note the flex duct is installed with it just LAYING where it wants to. NO STRAPPING! This is normal to see here. I NEVER new anyone to NOT stretch duct and strap it until I came down to Phoenix, AZ.
Again. Since the company I work for installs this crap, I can't offer to fix it. Because the H/O would look back at me and ask why WE (the company) didn't do it RIGHT in the first place!
This is actually one of their BETTER installs!

[iba2213]

Here in Las Vegas some a/h's and fau's acces panels are facing a firewall all you can even touch is the back of the unit.Another great one here is the truss'e will run right across the access making it impossible to even pull the blower out causing high $$$ repair bills,cuz we have to completly disconnect unit just to change a motor, what are you gunna do? cut the truss? not me.

[PaysonHVAC]

Yup. Got those here too. Especially some that face the rear wall, and like you said when you walk (crawl) up to it all you see is the rear of the unit. No access to the blower or coil.

Inspectors here in Phoenix need to have their a$$'s kicked!
This crap is being done on BRAND NEW HOMES on a regular basis. And when it IS done, it's a entire cookie cutter housing track all done the same way. The WRONG way.

[cxagent]

Don't blame too much on the inspectors. I think they should have caught most of this but clearly they didn't. Most code inspectors I see these days are doing a "sampling inspection". They sit out in the truck and come up with the 5 to 10 things they will actually check. If those pass they quit inspecting and pass the job. I don't agree with it, but that is what the "authorities having jurisdiction" have settled on.

The installer shouldn't have left it this way - no matter what company they work for. Who ever holds the license needs to understand THEY are legally responsible for the problems, not the installer. Maybe reminding the license holder of that detail will prevent future problems.

I must be a code worshiper for counting the code violations:
1) No 36 inch clearance in front of the unit per CABO 3905.2
2) No 22 inch wide access from attic opening to unit per CABO 1401.5
3) No 22 inch wide floor per CABO 1401.5
4) No 30 inch wide floor along control side of unit per CABO 1401.5
5) No electric outlet per CABO 1401.6.3 (might be out of picture)
Not shown but strongly suspected -
6) No condensate drain access per CABO 3205.1 & 3207.1
7) No drain line cleanout per CABO 3505.2.4
8) No access to drain line cleanout per CABO 3505.2.5
9) No drain line trap per CABO 3601 & 3701.2
10) No electric disconnect or disconnect inaccessable per CABO 4601.7
I could go on, but I won't.

Per CABO 503.2.2 and Table 503.2.1.1b, that 7/16 OSB is NOT an allowable floor. If the 'floor plywood' isn't continuous over two or more spans it has to be 3/4" sanded exterior-type plywood. Someone else can dig through the table to determine if there is ANY allowable floor installation & thickness for OSB. If the sprinkler pipe were attached to 3/4" plywood, it probably wouldn't move. It would still be better to attach it to the trusses out of everyone's way.

As far as the flex duct on the truss cords - I think that is legal. I think it should be legal and hope the insulators will pile some of that R-30 or so insulation over the top of the R-6 ducts.

OK, I'll get off my sop box now.

[ricm]

No support for the sloppilly (is that a real word?) installed A/C lines either.

[PaysonHVAC]

WOW. I didn't realize there was even a CODE for having a clean out on the drain!

Funny thing is lately some of us began installing a clean out on each maintenance and/or water leak trouble call. Only takes a second when changing the trap and the next drain clearing will be a snap.

[ricm]

I hear that PAYSON... Since I brought by-the-book thinking to the company I work for... I am constantly haunted by customers that ask... "Well, why didn't you (the company) do it right the first time? Who's gonna PAY for this? Don't I get Warranty?" etc. It's been a hard climb... but I've been given some authority to make a descision as to what is paid for 'after the fact' and what the company eats... I usually side with the customer... and surprise, surprise... were getting them and their cousins, and friends back for business now too...

Maybe my Mom was right... Don't put yourself into a compromising situation... unless it's the right thing to do.

[PaysonHVAC]

I really wish I still had a digital camera in my service vehicle. (Had one stolen recently).

Today I went behind a tech who AGAIN did a stupid repair.
The typical GOODMAN A61 air handler lost it's blower wheel a few months back. I guess it had taken out the original bolts that held the ears to the housing. So this tech installs a NEW motor and blower wheel with a new belly band mount. BUT, then instead of getting new bolts and nuts to mount it to the housing he used SHEET METAL screws and mounted the metal part of the motor ears right to the housing! Well of course how long do you think the sheet metal screws will hold that all together????

So today I got the call. Homeowner was right there and when I removed the assemly from his attic and took it outside to work on. He happened to SEE the previous tech's work and took a quick picture with the camera he just happened to be carrying. I guess he was hoping the problem was related to the last fix so it would be free. And of course he was RIGHT!

I fixed it up good with new bolts, nuts, washers and lock washers. It wont be coming apart for a long time now! I think I need to mention this problem to the tech who keeps doing that.