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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4

    Having a new Heat pump system installed

    Ok, please forgive me, I know enough about HVAC to be dangerous. From what I understand I have a 3 ton heat pump system with a gas furnace. The inside unit is a very old (guessing well over 20 yrs) Payne and the outside is a not so old gibbson unit. Well last summer when it was 103-105 here in south TX I could not get the house under 85 (Wife corrected me, I thought it was we could not get to 80, she says we could not get to 85), so I decided to get quotes before the summer heat gets here again.

    I called a local contractor and they have quoted a complete Payne 3 ton 13 seer unit for **. This is to include the inside and outside units, a new pad for the outside unit a new thermostat and the box on top of the inside unit that goes up to the plenum.

    This is **k less than the quote I got for low end Goodman unit. It is my understanding that Payne now comes with a 10 yr limited warranty.

    k for a new system? Does this sound too good to be true?

    edit****This is for a R22, NOT R410A system. House is about 1400 sq feet and it is in south Texas.

    Thanks
    Teddychk
    San Antonio, TX
    Last edited by Stamas; 01-30-2010 at 07:34 AM. Reason: Removed pricing, again. Please do not put pricing in your posts.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,336
    Quote Originally Posted by teddychk View Post
    Ok, please forgive me, I know enough about HVAC to be dangerous. From what I understand I have a 3 ton heat pump system with a gas furnace. The inside unit is a very old (guessing well over 20 yrs) Payne and the outside is a not so old gibbson unit. Well last summer when it was 103-105 here in south TX I could not get the house under 80, so I decided to get quotes before the summer heat gets here again.

    I called a local contractor and they have quoted a complete Payne 3 ton 13 seer unit for **. This is to include the inside and outside units, a new pad for the outside unit a new thermostat and the box on top of the inside unit that goes up to the plenum.

    This is ** less than the quote I got for low end Goodman unit. It is my understanding that Payne now comes with a 10 yr limited warranty.

    *** for a new system? Does this sound too good to be true?

    Thanks
    Teddychk
    San Antonio, TX
    So what inside temp did this company size the heat pump when it's 105 degrees out?

    You are replacing the hp because you only got 80 degrees when it was 105 degrees out. What makes the new unit do better?
    Last edited by Stamas; 01-29-2010 at 08:07 PM. Reason: Removed pricing

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4
    Well all the quotes I got during the heat of the summer last yr when I was having cooling issues all wanted to replace everything. They all said that the coils needed to be removed and dipped, most of the companies that came out said they would not even do that because they did not think they would survive the solvent. I did not ask what temp they would be able to get the temp down to. I do know that the system is not working correclty anymore and I tried my best to clean the coils with over the counter cleaner and a brush....but it did not seem to help.

    I am going to be selling or turning the house into a rental at the end of the yr. I am sure that when my wife bought this house in 2007 that the system cooled a little better.

    Guess I don't know that the new system will actually cool any better, I am just hoping it will.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,336
    Quote Originally Posted by teddychk View Post
    Well all the quotes I got during the heat of the summer last yr when I was having cooling issues all wanted to replace everything. They all said that the coils needed to be removed and dipped, most of the companies that came out said they would not even do that because they did not think they would survive the solvent. I did not ask what temp they would be able to get the temp down to. I do know that the system is not working correclty anymore and I tried my best to clean the coils with over the counter cleaner and a brush....but it did not seem to help.

    I am going to be selling or turning the house into a rental at the end of the yr. I am sure that when my wife bought this house in 2007 that the system cooled a little better.

    Guess I don't know that the new system will actually cool any better, I am just hoping it will.
    Wow, what kinda dipping are the doing? (I never heard of dipping)

    So it seems you don't care if the system actually preforms the way you want it. Just that it might preform better for, what your feel is a great deal.

    I say go for it, what do you have to lose. Maybe spending ** for the same thing you got.
    Last edited by Stamas; 01-30-2010 at 07:36 AM. Reason: Pricing removed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4
    Some kind of acid bath kind of dipping to clean the coils. Like I said, every AC company that has come to the house (Both the most expensive and the cheapest company, highest rated company in San Antonio and on down the line. I have had 4 different companies out here) that have all said the system needs to be replaced, the coil need replaced and a minimum.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    FLORIDA
    Posts
    1,163
    yes that is a great price and i did see it and the saving from one guy to the next

    prices prices prices are easy to put out there but the guy who puts it in, if he cheaps out on doing the right thing for any reason lazy,quick buck, just a butt head........
    when i was starting out unlicensed and doing side work yes i would do a system very cheap like this for the extra money for family friends and friends of friends and thats how i built my business and reputation but we are not all looking to start our own business some of us are looking for quick cash so there is a risk for the reward/savings - do you know him personally or a friend of a friend that is willing to give him a reference or did you meet him in a parking lot thats the question

    don't listen to the bullsheet from guys on here that if you don't pay full price with all the bells that"s how they make money and it is about the money
    big company's can be blood suckers too and raping people or just thats their price and they get it all the time this is surely not rocket science


    HP thats another story and not sure you want to start me on that rampage
    depending on where you live and the number of heat days (above 40 degrees ) a year after that they suck you have to make up on the difference in price but i did see what you are paying and that is a bargain he will make about ????.?? for the whole job so would your work a day on the week end for that and take care of the warranty for a year..... i did for about 10 years before i got license


    good luck
    once you think you've seen it all
    (THINK AGAIN)
    I would rather work for free than be look upon as a thief!!!!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    FLORIDA
    Posts
    1,163
    if all its needs is a cleaning

    my my my pump it down 10 mins.

    cut out coil and remove 10 more mins.

    take to the car wash and use pressure washer ( smoke 2 ciggs and spend 5 bucks ) 15 mins plus drive time

    reinstall coil and braze joints 15 mins
    pull vacuum for what ever it takes app. 15 mins in most cases

    check charge (remove extra gas last tech. inserted up wards of 3 to 6 lbs...
    because of low pressure reading because of poor air flow on coil

    no acid needed and have him paint U-bends to slow down rust

    system running like brand new not much money made but a clear conscious

    cost the company 2 to 3 hours labor and 5 bucks in change saves the customer XXXX.XX
    once you think you've seen it all
    (THINK AGAIN)
    I would rather work for free than be look upon as a thief!!!!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    6,038
    You forgot the flue

    And the PVC

    What about the pan you cracked driving the coil around town because it was practically disintegrated?

    And the fact that it was vertical in a interior closet and the coil cant be removed without removing the furnace.

    And the fact the homeowner is cheap and didnt want to pay for a good quality cleaning.

    All i was sayin is .......there not all so easy.

    OP i didnt mean you were cheap

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyboy103us View Post
    if all its needs is a cleaning

    my my my pump it down 10 mins.

    cut out coil and remove 10 more mins.

    take to the car wash and use pressure washer ( smoke 2 ciggs and spend 5 bucks ) 15 mins plus drive time

    reinstall coil and braze joints 15 mins
    pull vacuum for what ever it takes app. 15 mins in most cases

    check charge (remove extra gas last tech. inserted up wards of 3 to 6 lbs...
    because of low pressure reading because of poor air flow on coil

    no acid needed and have him paint U-bends to slow down rust

    system running like brand new not much money made but a clear conscious

    cost the company 2 to 3 hours labor and 5 bucks in change saves the customer XXXX.XX

    This is a joke right?

    Opened the system and no filter drier replaced or installed? 15 min vacuum? My 6cfm pump couldnt pull a quality vacuum in a window unit in 15 mins? Do you replace the vacuum pump oil like your supposed to or change it once a year or so? What about the nitrogen you brazed with? The nitrogen for the pressure test? I'm assuming you are venting the refrigerant? It takes me more then 15 minutes to get the pump and recovery machine off the truck and setup. Is it r410a probably not but it should be virgin refrigerant used if you are venting that much of it? Was a scale used in any of this process.

    Not saying it wont work. But I would hardly call doing that a favor to anyone. Its a hack job.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    4
    As for being cheap.....which is the better option in your opion then....replacing a 20 plus yr old system that was not properly cared for by the previous owner or having the system taken apart, cleaned properly and having worn parts replaced. This is not about being cheap, it is about not over paying for something that is pretty important to a house.

    I have not come across any HAVC repair person who wants to do anything other than at least replace the coil and tell me that is just one thing that the system needs. Heck, the utility company did not want to even turn the gas back on for the furnace when they saw the system.

    Yes, I do not want to pay X or more for something I can get for Y. If that makes me cheap then I guess I am.

    Please leave the pricing out of your posts. Sorry for putting in prices....I was just trying to figure out if price X was too good to be true. Sorry.
    Last edited by teddychk; 01-29-2010 at 09:29 PM. Reason: Pricing.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    hazzard county md
    Posts
    173
    evacuate for 15 mins? really? what about 200-400 microns

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by hmscool View Post
    evacuate for 15 mins? really? what about 200-400 microns
    Micron shicron! Just another gimmick to rip people off!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by teddychk View Post
    As for being cheap.....which is the better option in your opion then....replacing a 20 plus yr old system that was not properly cared for by the previous owner or having the system taken apart, cleaned properly and having worn parts replaced. This is not about being cheap, it is about not over paying for something that is pretty important to a house.

    I have not come across any HAVC repair person who wants to do anything other than at least replace the coil and tell me that is just one thing that the system needs. Heck, the utility company did not want to even turn the gas back on for the furnace when they saw the system.

    Yes, I do not want to pay X or more for something I can get for Y. If that makes me cheap then I guess I am.

    Please leave the pricing out of your posts. Sorry for putting in prices....I was just trying to figure out if price X was too good to be true. Sorry.
    Call around town. Even call the people you know will be expensive just for a quote.

    You'll see you are trying to get X but pay Y. And there are people that will cater to you but you'll find out in the end you got Y....and Y is bad. heheh

    I've sold heat pumps for 4x what you are looking at. Best money can buy, relatively speaking. And the customer has gotten more then they were expecting, 10 years of labor parts warranty, 10 years of cleaning with air cleaner replacements and UV bulb replacements, 10 years of 24 hour service. Plus the equipment will do as advertised, 75 degrees inside when its 105 out is pretty nice. 85 degrees? I'd move if thats the best my house was ever going to get.

    And as far as warranties go. The equipment parts are cheap, the labor is the expensive part. And if you cant get a hold of the other company then what? I dont warranty other peoples work even if the parts are under warranty, I'll fix it for a standard rate though. Just too much hassle sending parts back or whatever.

    Regardless of what you do, good luck. But honestly I think that price is "to good to be true". I wouldnt/couldnt do side work for friends and family at the price, haha...

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