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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    106

    Amonia absorbtion chillers

    Has there been any work on a solar powered amonia absorbtion hvac system?
    I know they are used for rv refrgerators and small scale stuff. Also, I realize that for a home sized hvac, it would be pretty large. It takes a little heat from a propane flame to remove heat from the evap. This could probably be supplimented with solar heat.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    OFFICES IN : ARIZONA - NEVADA - TEXAS
    Posts
    258
    Your writing an area that is old news , out-dated , epa banned and government regulated.. This has been already explored and it was already used for residential a/c , many are still in operation in old resident's in our state. These systems can be deadly and are also bad for the environment, soon they will be replaced in the rv industry with LP systems.
    "Rock-n-Roll " Ain't noise pollution..

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    phoenix
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by INTECHBILL View Post
    Your writing an area that is old news , out-dated , epa banned and government regulated.. This has been already explored and it was already used for residential a/c , many are still in operation in old resident's in our state. These systems can be deadly and are also bad for the environment, soon they will be replaced in the rv industry with LP systems.
    A. EPA banned ?? Please show a link. Ammonia has been the choice for industrial refrigeration for years. Safety hazards....Sure, but banned by EPA?
    B. Government regulated....Sure, but all refrigerants are regulated.
    C. Bad for the environment? Ammonia has a zero ODP. Please show us a link that ammonia is bad for the environment.

    Below is a link for a solar refrigeration system:
    http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGki5_Ol...nology.thermal

    SCUSOLAR.org has one system that uses solar heating with lithium bromide, an absorption refrigeration cycle. There are others and I'm guessing that there may be more. Solar tax credits, higher oil prices, depleting oil reserves, etc. will only help promote solar refrigeration research.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    OFFICES IN : ARIZONA - NEVADA - TEXAS
    Posts
    258
    Understanding chemistry and make up of refrigerant gases and the bi-products that are associated and produced from their usage will always be difficult for many to understand . One day there will be another common basic refrigerant type such as R-22 that will be LP base and until then we will have many new ones R-410A, R-407c, R-422 .... & ammonia equipment will no longer be applicable due to its dangerous bi-products created by it's separation when used within a system.

    "Rock-n-Roll " Ain't noise pollution..

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    StL, MO
    Posts
    580
    UA LU 562

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    106
    Yeah, I considered the amonia inhalation issue, though about using glycol to seperate the living space with the cooler.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    OFFICES IN : ARIZONA - NEVADA - TEXAS
    Posts
    258
    0.0 = TAX CREDIT
    0.0 = GOVERNMENT RESEARCH
    0.0 = KNOWLEDGE FOR NEW TECHS
    100 % = DEADLY VAPORS FOR THE PUBLIC

    "Rock-n-Roll " Ain't noise pollution..

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by INTECHBILL View Post
    0.0 = TAX CREDIT
    0.0 = GOVERNMENT RESEARCH
    0.0 = KNOWLEDGE FOR NEW TECHS
    100 % = DEADLY VAPORS FOR THE PUBLIC

    Hydrogen cant be bad, its the fuel of the future!!!!Or at least its being sold as such.
    And amonia? Is'nt in alot of cleaning poroducts? or has it been regulated out?
    What about the water in the system, what happens to that?
    I see the ponit of danger, but look at our cars, either petroleum, hydrogen, acids if electric and highly explosive if lipo4.
    I actually hadnt realized absorbtion chillers was a mass produced/ manufactured product.
    Kinda like the first cars were electric, the first diesels were peanut oil(veg oils) and the stirling engine was invented in the 1800's. All these things are being successfully revisted with modern technology, why not absorbtion?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    phoenix
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by INTECHBILL View Post
    Understanding chemistry and make up of refrigerant gases and the bi-products that are associated and produced from their usage will always be difficult for many to understand . One day there will be another common basic refrigerant type such as R-22 that will be LP base and until then we will have many new ones R-410A, R-407c, R-422 .... & ammonia equipment will no longer be applicable due to its dangerous bi-products created by it's separation when used within a system.

    INTECHBILL, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying learn. I don't understand your comments. I've seen a few of your recent posts and I'm not sure when you are being serious or funny.
    A. "will always be difficult for many to understand". What do you mean by that? Can you explain refrigerant chemistry, bi-products, and how they relate to ammonia?
    B. "due to it's dangerous bi-products created when used within a system". I thought you said "dangerous to the environment".

    I've only serviced 50 or so ammonia industrial systems, so I'm definitely not an expert. I'm always wiling to learn.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,793
    check this company out

    http://www.robur.com/

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by few2many View Post
    Has there been any work on a solar powered amonia absorbtion hvac system?
    I know they are used for rv refrgerators and small scale stuff. Also, I realize that for a home sized hvac, it would be pretty large. It takes a little heat from a propane flame to remove heat from the evap. This could probably be supplimented with solar heat.
    There is another reason it is not done. Cost. A solar ammonia system big enough to cool a typical house would be so expensive that if you put the 5-7% interest it would cost to finance it against the utility bill from a standard DX package you would be losing money. Ditto if you paid cash. You could make enough in interest by investing the money to more than pay your electric bill. Your investment would never pay for itself. Plus how many people like looking at a big industrial scale mess of mirrors and pipes in there backyard. OR in their neighbors back yard. Add in the possibility of having to evacuate the neighborhood if there is a leak and your insurance company would have kittens.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    6
    I agree Bob, that interest on the initial cost is greater than the energy bill of a dx aircon. But would that still be true if the cost of the energy doubled? Well, er, yes, since by the time the energy cost doubles, the cost of the materials would probably double also. Cry'ing shame too, cause we need a solution. We just can not afford to continue this expensive cooling habit. Especially in the far South.

    I wonder if passive thermal techniques using materials that are dirt cheap are cost effective. Earth as a thermal barrier does more than insulate; it delays and attenuates thermal gradients. But this is too far off topic. Somebody else on this forum already pointed out that you can save more money in the envelope design stage than you can in the hvac equipment selection phase, although both are important.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1

    Solar Powered Absorption

    There is solar absorbers out there. One of the companies I consult for is Yazaki Energy. They make water fired, gas fired and solar powered absorbers. We use water as the refrigerant mixed with a lithium bromide solution.

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