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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    9,919
    Originally posted by kb0vso
    Was this put in by a NATE installer ?
    No. It was done by a LAME one

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    9,919
    After poring over this thing, it appears that the 8" common flue was in fact necessary because of the number of offsets in the common flue *BECAUSE* as it oftens happens, the builder's floor plan was so chopped up, there was nowhere else to locate the gas appliances, so the common flue had to change direction a few times in order to come out the roof where it wouldn't be seen from the street.

    All I can do (for less than *thousands* of dollars) is to replace the single wall with B vent. There's still going to be lots of acidic condensation though.

    What a mess

  3. #16
    I don't think (even with B-vent) you will ever get this mess to work. The B-vent will quickly corrode and I doubt the equpment will vent properly anyway.
    Your lialbility is huge - I'd recommend to the customer they replace everything with sidewall vent equipment or heat pumps and electic H2O tanks (if that is even possible), if not, I would "run away".

    JMHO

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    9,919
    Originally posted by Rudy
    I don't think (even with B-vent) you will ever get this mess to work. The B-vent will quickly corrode and I doubt the equpment will vent properly anyway.
    Your lialbility is huge - I'd recommend to the customer they replace everything with sidewall vent equipment or heat pumps and electic H2O tanks (if that is even possible), if not, I would "run away".

    JMHO
    I know. If I mess with it, it becomes my problem. Under the circumstances, the contractor should've gone with 90%ers when it was built, but the builder's probably didn't want to pay the extra $$$. The current owners bought the house when it was 3 years old.

    It gets worse. A few years ago, the current owners spent 25,000 to have the basement finished and the ductwork (now inaccessible) done. The basement's still freezing and he wants more heat down there. The original hvac contractors installed 2 80,000 btu furnaces, (one for 1st floor & one for the 2nd floor) even though the 2nd floor is less than 1/2 the size of the 1st floor. The finished basement ductwork comes off the 1st floor unit so it's pretty well tapped out. The bldg inspectors busted the remodeling contractors who did the basement and made them put in much more combustion air into the furnace room, much of which comes from an uninsulated cold space on the outer wall from the finished area floor up over the top of the ceiling to the furnace room. 50 degree air comes out of vents in the finished area near the floor in the winter.

    It would be a hell of a lot colder down there if it wasn't for the heat from those single wall flues too. Furnace room is nice and toasty.

    New 90% furnaces with outside combustion air would eliminate the need for the cold combustion air inlets.

    It's a $#@$ mess!!!!

  5. #18
    "Run Away"
    Yep, I can't tell you how many times I tried to do things that weren't quite right just to try and help customers out. More often than not it came back to bite me in the bu**.
    Fortunately, I don't think I ever hurt anybody but ya just can't take that chance.
    If they don't want to do it right, don't do anything at all.
    You sure don't want to see a post in a couple of years in the "Wall of Shame" from some other contractor showing pics of your B-vent all falling apart (and it certainly will)!!
    Plus, he'll be the one making the big bucks on replacements and your reputation will take a hit....

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    9,919
    Originally posted by Rudy
    "Run Away"
    Yep, I can't tell you how many times I tried to do things that weren't quite right just to try and help customers out. More often than not it came back to bite me in the bu**.
    Fortunately, I don't think I ever hurt anybody but ya just can't take that chance.
    If they don't want to do it right, don't do anything at all.
    You sure don't want to see a post in a couple of years in the "Wall of Shame" from some other contractor showing pics of your B-vent all falling apart (and it certainly will)!!
    Plus, he'll be the one making the big bucks on replacements and your reputation will take a hit....
    I guess you guys are right. This guy isn't going to shell out the money for new furnaces, and the water heaters are only 6 months old too. There are so many problems here it's unbelievable. To make things worse, there's a steel support beam all the way across above the finished basement ceiling that's in the way of running the pvc for new 90% furnaces. Some sort of pipe chase would have to be built.

    I think I'm going to suggest he should move (and take all of my stickers off the equipment)



  7. #20
    Absolutely, get your stickers off the equipment!!
    Then explain what you have found and give an estimate to fix it.
    They'll probably find someone else who will just revent it, then in a couple of years, they'll be calling you back.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Columbia, SC. USA
    Posts
    1,143
    The only way I see it being close to right: Tie both natural draft flues(water heater 3") together with a 3x3x7" tee, run it past your flues for the induced draft furnaces and tie it to your 8" connector past the connection for the furnaces. At the furnaces tie them together with a 4"x4"x8" tee, and run the 8" to the connector going through the roof, that would be a 8x8x7" tee, the 7" going back to your water heaters...the only thing I would worry about there is a possible back-draft while the furnaces are running. Simply put, you are trying to vent too much out of too small a hole.That seems the most gracefull, and closest to code fix I can come up with. Good-Luck.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    5,340

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