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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    5

    3T 13 SEER condenser matched to 4T 10 SEER coil?

    I had a new A/C system installed last summer and was messing around in the attic and noticed that the evap coil installed is a 4T. Since the condensor is 3T, I called the installer. He said that the coil was a 4T, 10 SEER, and that it matched fine w/ a 3T, 13 SEER condenser. He said the 4T, 10 SEER coil is about the same size as the 3T, 13 SEER coil. Is that correct? What about the TXV? Will a 4T TXV work well w/ the smaller condenser?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    6,048
    To really answer your question I will need the complete model # and brands of the indoor/outdoor units to see if its a approved AHRI matchup. As far as your TXV question with our Goodman/Amana units we have one valve for 1-3tons and one for 3-5. It is adjustable and we fine tune it for each installation. Some are fixed TXVs and cant be adjusted. These will adjust themselves to meet a wide range of temperatures/pressures and you should be fine with one size down with the outdoor unit. Its the 10seer thing that concerns me. It must be a field installed TXV.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
    Posts
    2,903
    Coils by themselves don't have SEER ratings.

    Condensers + coils are tested together.

    The more efficient units (13 vs 10) require large coils, so a coil rated for 4 tons on a 10 SEER matchup could very well be a good match for a 3 ton 13 SEER system.
    General public's attitude towards our energy predicament: "I reject the reality of finite resource depletion and substitute it with my own; energy is infinite, we just need an alternative storage medium to run the cars on. The economy can grow indefinitely - we just need to "green" everything! Technology is energy! Peak what?"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    947
    Mr bike and amd are right - this is where to check:

    http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahridir...ages/home.aspx

    I know right after the 13 seer mandate a few years back, talk like this was common, as manufacturers simply upsized coils to get the evaporation they needed to meet the requirements. Since then there is a more nuanced approach, and all the labelling matches.

    If the install is old, there is a possibility that you may not find the parts match, since the database is always updated, and one or both part numbers are no longer there.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,986

    Get enough EER & SEER will take care of itself...

    I could test your system to see what BTUH & EER it is delivering at specific conditions.

    Of course, even the listed match won't deliver the rated EER & SEER unless every other aspect of the installation including airflow & ductwork are perfect.

    The other factors need to be test known & the relative EER found.

    I would test for BTUH & resultant EER, SEER is far too variable & subjective regarding what most of us could decipher with testing.

    A ton of things apart from SEER Ratings has many times more influence on BTUH output & EER/SEER performance!

    If the EER comes close enough to a listed 13-SEER match I would forget about the expense of installing a new evaporator. Get enough EER & SEER, with a little tunning, will take care of itself.

    The TXV metering device is matched to the condenser tonnage, therefore use the TXV tonnage rating Goodman/Amana recommends to use for that 3-Ton condenser. - Darrell
    Last edited by udarrell; 01-19-2010 at 12:40 PM. Reason: including...

  6. #6
    amasuperbike, I have a similar setup I am on the southeast coast about 100 yds from the ocean and we lose our heat pumps every 7 years to corrosion. In the newer house built in 99 i am well on the way to the 3rd set of heat pumps. WE usually get Goodman's for price. They work well until the housing falls off of the compressor or until the 2 way filters rust out. Usually 2 for each pump's life. Anyway since we are approaching the 3rd set we are in the 13 seer trap. I will give you one set of the units model numbers to see if you can help. Goodman air handler with coil model # A42-10. The Condenser (which is the 2nd one ) is CPLE42-1. I have not been able to find information that tells me if we can just change the orifice and then move to a 3.5 Ton 13 seer condenser. The A42-10 coil definitely has an orifice as I took it apart before I wrote this to verify it and make sure it was not a TXV. For now the air handler and coil seem fine and are holding a charge nicely and everything is OK but the condenser bottom has already rusted itself out and the compressor now sits on the wooden stand 4 ft up in the air as code requires out here. My other set are 4 ton instead of 3 and of course the same condition only about 6 months younger. Any ideas that you can share would be helpful since I have a little time before the rust gets the better of us again. I figure we will make it through the summer after replacing the filter which is so rusty I'm afraid to touch it for fear it will start leaking. The lines on both units are of the 3/8 and 7/8 the other is 3/8 and 3/4 also. They are approximately 20 to 25 ft or less in length. Again any insight would be appreciated from anyone here. I have been reading for the last 4 days everything i could find and this group seems to have it's finger on the pulse of my current problem.
    Thanks,
    Carl
    ps I put this under this thread cause I thought i might have to drop the condenser tonage down to 3 or 2.5 and use the current coil ??? maybe or ??? or just the TXV ??? or both ???
    REspectfully,
    Carl

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    6,048
    Your system will be operating in the 7-8 seer range now with your 13 seer outdoor and 10 seer indoor coil. It still will work but its not working good.

    Goodmans are decent for their price....but in your environment I would recommend looking into a nice Trane or American Standard unit. They have a composite bottom.

    Here is a cool product that is a coating for your indoor coils, outdoor coils. If you had your brand new truly matched system coated with these products maybe you could get 5-10 yrs of trouble free service in your harsh environment. This company has all kinds of corrosion protection products.

    http://www.bronz-glow.com/products/d...lprot-kit.html

    Also have that filter changed by someone!! And have them coat it with the bronz-glow "component coat" spray after it has been brazed in.

  8. #8
    amabuperbike, Thanks for your reply. I think the ecoil and condenser are both 10 seer now so they whould be doing OK. The guy 2 doors down the street had 2 stainless cabinets put in and they only lasted 3 years. Out here we have a test facility for all kinds of stuff like light poles, ac condensers, about every thng you can think of has been in their racks at one time or another. I have not seen a condenser ever last over 7 on the ocean side. the salt dew every night gets everything. cars that sit outside will rust around the windshield in 4. I will look into the bronze stuff and see. I know that normal undercoating will NOT work or rustoleum either. Stainless hardware and flashing rusts here. I live in the harshest salt environment on the east coast. Anyway the TXV or down sizing of the condenser will not evidently help out but will our current 10 seer Ecoil be usable with a 13 seer condenser ??? and if we change the orifice size to what ?? will that help or again must we go to a txv on both ends ??? We are trying to keep our cabinets (air handlers) for a few more years if we can as we know we are destined to lose them too. Here's another one for you. All duplex's must be changed every 4 to 5 years cause they corrode inside the house. Doors are never left open either. TOO much humidity unless you want mold. but we love it.
    Thanks again,
    Carl

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,647
    Two problems.. New outdoor condensers are 13seer minimum..
    Second.. Might have a problem locating R-22 outdoor condensers as now in 2010 no manufacturer is allowed to manufacture a R-22 unit..

    Your system is at the point of needing both the indoor unit and outdoor unit both being replaced.... period.. sorry...

    J

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,069
    Carlford.

    You'll need a new indoor coil.
    Since most likely, your new outdoor unit will be a R410A unit, and not an r22 unit.
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  11. #11
    Thanks, beenthere and advanced response. Since there is now a drop in for r22 I have noticed a lot more of the r22 units available. Maybe they are just clearing out the warehouse for newer 410 ones. Size of the newer units is the only problem as they are trying to MAKE us buy a new air handler that would fit. I almost think a 3.5 ton 13 seer mobile home unit would work. That way you could use just about any condenser with one of them. Our unit has a 2 speed fan and it can be set for either speed. Anyway thanks guys I eally appreciate your responses.
    Carl

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,069
    The current R22 units you might find for sale. Are just ones that are in stock.
    Might not be around in another month or 2. let alone next year.
    They aren't being made anymore. not even to use a supposed drop in(there is no drop in for R22, just falsely advertised as such).


    Even mobile home units are sold as matching units.

    Mismatch. And it might lose enough capacity, that it isn't big enough to cool your place anymore.

    In 99, 8 SEER was a standard unit. So connecting a 13 SEER to a indoor coil designed for 8 SEER condensers. Might get you a 6 SEER, or a 9 SEER.
    Contractor locator map

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