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Thread: Automated Logic

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona
    Posts
    252

    Automated Logic

    Hello, I take care of a building that has approximately 300 u341. I was told that those are no longer available, and that what has to be done is an upgrade which requires installing the new device and some software reconfiguration.

    The building is only a few years old, Upper management is upset with the high cost involved with the upgrade to this (1) vav. What other options if any exist? Does anyone have any u341 devices laying around for sale?

    Thanks for any and all input.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    297
    It's a true statement. The U-line is a thing of the past, and thank god.the ZN-341 is a far better vav control.
    I would have the dealer explain this higher cost. The ZN-341V+ does cost a little more, and it takes a little more time to setup but not much.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    258

    Hmm

    +1, U341 V+ is retired but they are repairable in most cases. The biggest complaint is the damper motor failing and they are easy for the dealer to replace on-site. U341's weren't bad, I have worked on thousands of them but the ZN is better.

    Upgrading is easy and can be done 2 ways. If one fails, remove it from your database and install a ZN341V+ in its place. Then you wire its comm to a new native WebCtrl network, you'll have to add a LAN module for the 1st one, then you just start a new network with the replaced modules.

    Second, you can add a ZN341 to a U net and there is some fairly easy programming to make it work, the disadvantage is that when done this way you cannot download any driver updates to the ZN across the U net, you have to go to it and plug directly into it to download the driver.

    You will see U modules on Ebay once in a while, and pretty cheap. It's just a risk that it's good when you get it. Another concern is your UNI module... they are extinct too, especially the UNI59 version. If your UNI craps out, you're in a world of hurt even with good U modules.

    Are you running WebCtrl, Supervision, or InterOp, you need WebCtrl to even upgrade to the ZNs.
    HotRod


    Controls..some days your a hero, some days your a zero. Direct acting since 1992.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona
    Posts
    252
    Hotrod, you say the damper motors are easily replaced by the dealer. I'd like to replace the motor myself. I've done it in the past but we no longer have any spares, do you have a source for the damper motor?

    Were running WebCtrl 4.1 at this particular building. Our dealer is great, they help us out frequently for free. Upper management is in shock for the price to replace one U341. Perhaps were not understanding what needs to be done of the first of any and all upgrades to the new ZN line.

    Hotrod, if I understand you right your saying we will initially be purchasing (2) pieces of equipment and require some minor programming. After that any U341 failures will only require the purchase of a ZN341 and some minor programming, does that sound right?

    Now that I think about it, I believe we already have a LAN module in that facility. Anyways thanks for your input.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona
    Posts
    252
    We've had a couple of UNI 16 and some UNI32's take a dump on us. What's the story with these? There failures seem to be unexplainable. Is there an upgrade to the UNI's?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    258
    Rotaryfrk, you may have a LAN module but you need another one. You have to keep the "legacy" and "native" WebCtrl networks seperate unless you can upgrade all of what you have. Keep in mind that the ZNs run at 156K baud and the U stuff is 9600 or 38.4K.

    Your understanding is correct as you explained it regarding starting with 2 pieces and then just adding 1 in the future. You'll have to add an LGR or an LGE and start a new network. Then you connect the LG Nets together or drop the new module on the EtherNet and add a BacNet network to your tree in SiteBuilder. You add all new ZN modules to that network and remove the failed U components from the legacy side in SiteBuilder as they fail.

    I'm sure that your shock of the price of the U card is because the factory raises the price of these when they go extinct. Also they wait until they have an order for 12 before they build them, the lead time can be months!

    Ask your dealer for some replacement motors, they can call the factory and get them for free.

    There is no upgrade for the UNIs, when you replace U341s with ZN341s you no longer need the UNI. They're usually pretty reliable unless you get a power spike.
    HotRod


    Controls..some days your a hero, some days your a zero. Direct acting since 1992.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hopkins, South Carolina
    Posts
    152
    I don't know if this has ever been answered. The U-line modules have are not produced anymore. If you have a u-line module go bad you replace it with a zn module equal in i/o points. The ZN module can be converted to a u-line module with a driver download and it will work as a u-card on either legacy or native WebCTRL system

    The UNI/16's are also discontinued but the UNI/32 modules are still ok.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    258
    I stand corrected and that is correct that they will run on a UNI, I forgot about that. I personally have never done it, but I know that it works. The drawback is that you need to out go to and plug into the ZN module for any firmware or driver updates, you can't download ZN updates across the U net.
    HotRod


    Controls..some days your a hero, some days your a zero. Direct acting since 1992.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hopkins, South Carolina
    Posts
    152
    That is true about downloading driver updates but with the ZN being made into a dumbed down Ucard that is really not much of an issue. All the brains are now located in UNI just like with a true ucard. We have been pleased with it so far. We have done several jobs where we have had to add to an existing UNI network with no issues. We also still have some pre-WebCTRL customers that have no plans to convert that we have had to do this for them.

    Now if you have a native WebCTRL system you can add a ZN directly on unet as a ZN module. The unet is just a BACnet ms/tp network typicaly at 38 baud. You just have to set the network jumpers and switches on zn to the same settings as unet. A ZN does not have to reside on a ARC156 network. We have successfully done this also.

    Another advantage of using a ZN with the emulation driver is you can use the newer RS sensors and pick up two module inputs.

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