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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    12

    Hanging ducts with bent nails?

    Quick question. Is hanging flexible duct straps with nails bent over like the pics below typical or even to code? We had a new install of a HVAC and I called for and inspection last Friday - 3 pages of corrections with over 20 violations. This one wasn't listed but he couldn't get to the ducting because the furnace was in the way and didn't want to climb over it. I did today and saw this. It doesn't look right to me.








  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    1,482
    Not the best way to use duct hanging straps, but went on a job and found flex supported by shoe strings. Yes, shoe strings. I couldn't tell you what code is, as far as fasteners, but it sure looks tacky. If they already have been summoned back to take care of the inspector's issues, I'd ask about the bent nails. My jobs are all installed by a sheet metal subcontracter that has been tin bending almost as many years as I've been doing service work. I trust him completely, and never worry about installs not passing inspection.
    One way to outthink people is to make them think you think. They'll think you're not really thinking what you're trying to get them to think you think...........

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Round Rock
    Posts
    3,517
    While it may not be the most professional looking job. What else are they supposed to use? You have a choice of nails or screws to fasten it to wood. I don't think they have a code to determine minimum penetration for nails into wood. Do you have 3 pages of code misconduct for the hvac alone? Or is it for a variety of other trades as well? 3 pages for just hvac is extreme, for an entire house under construction or remodel. It may not be far off.
    I like DIY'ers. They pay better to fix.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Ocean Pines, MD
    Posts
    6,957
    What were the some of the other "violations"?
    Had one job where they hung flex and piping with the blue peel of adhesive strip of split tube pipe insulation.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Plant City, Florida
    Posts
    2,198
    Quote Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
    While it may not be the most professional looking job. What else are they supposed to use? You have a choice of nails or screws to fasten it to wood. I don't think they have a code to determine minimum penetration for nails into wood. Do you have 3 pages of code misconduct for the hvac alone? Or is it for a variety of other trades as well? 3 pages for just hvac is extreme, for an entire house under construction or remodel. It may not be far off.
    3 pages for an entire job is way too many.

    As far as minimum penetration into wood, I will look it up, but I would not accept sloppy work like that even if it met code.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    35
    I can only imagine what the rest of the install looks like. You get what you pay for is all I can say.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Beach
    Posts
    680
    You can leave the nails, ask the contractor to go back and put screws in each hanger. The hanging material looks fine. We have to use 1 1/2 hanging material.
    Blue Fox

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    717
    Quote Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
    While it may not be the most professional looking job. What else are they supposed to use? .
    ************************************************** ****
    "what else are they supposed to use" ??? Duh!!!! Do ya think a shorter nail or screw that can be driven tightly to the wood would look better??
    That way it would have more holding power while looking somewhat a bit professional instead of a slipshod effort by some dummy that one day picked up a pair of snips and now thinks he is a tin knocker.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    12
    Most of the others were from the electrical and plumbing. The wall heaters and AC were taken out and a split system put in. Hired the #1 contractor in the county. They have a pie chart that show they did over twice the amount of permits than anyone else last year. This is actually grandma's house. She got two quotes. The first one said a permit wasn't needed and I told her it was so when she asked them about it they said she would need to go down and get it. When she did she got scared by a form they gave them saying what the responsibility of an owner-builder and got scared so went with the big name guy on TV. Right after it was done, she paid him even before the inspection.

    The inspector said the permit was for a changeout and not a new install. When I brought the results to the contractor he was pissed. Said in 30 some years the most they've ever gotten is 3.

    Another question for the CA people. They had marked on the CF-6R that the TXV failed. When I asked the contractor about that he said that was because it didn't have on and he guesses the inspector wants a Refrigerant charge measurement. From what I can in climate zone 12 a TXV must be installed an verified by a HERS rater. Is this right? There are other flow tests that don't make sense. For example it has a line that says pass if leakage at final <6%. They had a 23 and pass? The rater form was signed and dated on a day no one was home?

    Just some others:
    Gas pipe inspection
    Provide gas piping calculations for t-off of gas line @ water heater
    14 AWG NMB on 20A breakers (attic light and recepticle/heater, and outdoor GFCI)
    30A breakers and fuse disconnects to AC - nameplate says 20A max
    light, receptacle, and furnace on same circuit (20A 14AWG)
    Cable conduit overfilled
    No anchors in stucco.
    zip ties supporting liquid and suction line
    NMB supported by tape to AC lines
    Breaches in firewall not sealed
    move collar ties up from Obstructed passageway
    14 cu in Light box overfilled
    NM in light box is not clamped
    wire to light is going wrong direction around terminal
    flex conduit to light box not connected
    switch in attic has black supply and white return.Light has two whites, none marked
    light switch ground going wrong way around screw
    light switch box is not grounded
    Relocate receptacle in attic - blocked by exhaust vent
    Protect existing romex in attic at catwalk
    flex conduit from J-Box to furn not secured within 12"
    No ground connected to extension ring, switch, or receptical at furnace.
    Wires going into furnace need grommet
    1/8" per foot slope of condensate waste pipe needed (mostly flat or upward)
    PVC waste pipe not supported every 4'
    Gas pipe not supported 6'
    Some ducts not supported every 4'
    whole house fan need to be interlock with attic furnace
    Correct or explain page 5 of 12 CF-6R form @ thermostatic expansion (TXV) (Fail)






  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,422
    Have them replace the "bent nails" with screws while they are taking care of all the other stuff. Looks very un-professional and can't believe their installers didn't have something else available to anchor the straps with. Keep after them until they take care of all this. The lack of "grommet" on furnace cabinet also speaks of their lack of professional expertice. Sounds like these guys were paid to "do it fast" not well!! Throw it in and run...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
    Have them replace the "bent nails" with screws while they are taking care of all the other stuff. Looks very un-professional and can't believe their installers didn't have something else available to anchor the straps with. Keep after them until they take care of all this. The lack of "grommet" on furnace cabinet also speaks of their lack of professional expertice. Sounds like these guys were paid to "do it fast" not well!! Throw it in and run...
    The funny thing is that the 6 straps from in front of the furnance to the garage access hole used screws and behind where you can't get to without unscrewing one of those ducts or climbing over the furnance has everyone one nailed like this. I can understand one or two bent nails, but everyone?? That is why I'm trying to figure out if it was done on purpose. I think they didn't expect someone to go back there.

    Is supporting by nails and screws ok from the bottom of the rafters ok or do they need to go into the sides?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,422
    Anchoring with screws in the side or bottom of joists will be fine. You don't have a lot of weight to deal with. Also make sure none of the flex is supported over 5feet apart. Be nice not to have to much "sag" also, as it will affect air flow if sagged.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    12
    So I think we're screwed. Got a hold of the contract from grandma. It could be a HVAC changeout by the way they wrote it and doesn't say much about all the electrical they "did". Nothing specific about the light and receptacles so they can claim the didn't do it. Even the gas line mentioned could mean the flex line required to be changed out when replacing a unit. So the electrical and plumbing permits and repair could be on us. I'm really trying not to stress grandma out. She already paid them so I doubt they will be responsive. Tomorrow morning I am going to try to get a copy of the permit application they did. Somehow I think all the time I take to sort this mess out will be more than doing the work myself and it would be to code. I may still end up doing all the work to fix it myself at this rate.

    Bid will include:
    Furnace in the attic, A/C unit, evaporator coil, digital setback thermostat, pad, flashing, condensate drain & pan, refrigerant line, gas line, flue pipe, high & low voltage, fuse box, filter set up, all duct runs, duct transitions, Title 24 Duct test & seal, state HERS verification, all supply registers, all sheet metal, freon recover old unit, location cleanup, existing equipment removal, 24-hour emergency service, all permits, tax & labor.

    Equipment: Lennox furnace model #G40UH-24-45
    A/C model #13ADC-024

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