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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,673
    Quote Originally Posted by kyparamedic View Post
    I have not moved in yet and have had the temperature set at 55 degrees.
    1500 sq foot house
    The total kWh used for the 31 days was 2610
    Average outside temp was 31 degrees.
    HDDs = [(65-31)-10](31) = ~740
    2610 kwh is 89 therms
    89/1500 = 5900 BTU/[sq. ft.]
    5900/740 = 8 BTU/[sq. ft-HDD]
    which is what my 1964 house with new windows measures.

    Average is 5.9 BTU/[sq. ft-HDD] with a range of 1.4 [lowest heat loss] to 11.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    37
    I have seen power bills hiegher then that for 900 sqr ft apt with 5K heat strips. But they don't have good insulation.

  3. #16
    I'm going to have the electric company come do an energy audit. It's only $25 and from what all they say that they do, that seems like a bargain. I'm not sure how much they know or can test with the HVAC, but they do test the ductwork for leaks along with a lot of other things. It may make sense to switch over to a gas furnace, I don't know. I'll see what they suggest and maybe get some estimates. I plan on living her for a few years but like someone else said, it might take around 10 years to be worth it. Although the electric company is asking for a 13.7% rate increase while natural gas just decreased by 39%.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    I don't know
    Posts
    2,897
    --------------------------------------------

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Pan Handle, Fl
    Posts
    598
    Quote Originally Posted by kyparamedic View Post
    I just bought a house that has an electric furnace. I was told that it's not a heat pump, although I'm not clear on the difference. I have not moved in yet and have had the temperature set at 55 degrees.

    I looked at the furnace and the only thing I could find on it was Goodman ARUF18241BA.
    Your electric heat air handler is more than likely a 2 ton (need outside model to verify) I think Goodman's ARUF1824 is used in both 1 1/2 ton and 2 ton applications. An empty house does take more to heat and cool especially if tile, wood floors. A 2 ton in that size house tells me it probably is well insulated like inspector said. Electric heating is very expensive unless you have very mild winters. I would call an HVAC contractor and get some ideas. Sounds like changing outside to heatpump would be the easiest fix.
    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    cincinnati ohio
    Posts
    2,020

    electric bills

    You should find the electric from the past 3 yrs of the other owners too
    My avatar is a picture of a Goodman Silencer .....These were commonly used in Goodman country ....Photos by hvac tech ( PaysonHVAC )

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by kyparamedic View Post
    Although the electric company is asking for a 13.7% rate increase while natural gas just decreased by 39%.
    What is your delivered prive of electricity, in cents per kw-hr? Delivered price = generation + distribution + transmission.

    What is your delivered price for natural gas, $ per therm or $ per ccf?

    Edit: From Post #7:
    "Electric is $0.05879 per kWh. Gas is $0.70478 per 100 cubic feet."

    Now, compare the cost of 1 million btu's of heat.

    Heat pump w/electricity at 6 cents per kw-hr (dirt cheap), C.O.P. = 3.6 at 36F ambient:
    (1,000,000 / 3414) x .06 / 3.6
    = $4.88

    Straight electric resistance heat:
    = $17.57

    Natural gas w/gas at $.71 per ccf, 80% efficient furnace:
    (1,000,000 / 100,000) x .71 / .8
    = $8.88

    With a 95% efficient furnace:
    = $7.47

    The heat pump is still 65% cheaper than the 95% AFUE gas furnace.

    As the ambient temps increase from the 35F example, C.O.P. increases and the heat pump is even cheaper to run.

    Take care.
    Last edited by gary_g; 01-16-2010 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Added edit

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    cincinnati ohio
    Posts
    2,020

    hp cheaper ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    What is your delivered prive of electricity, in cents per kw-hr? Delivered price = generation + distribution + transmission.

    What is your delivered price for natural gas, $ per therm or $ per ccf?

    Edit: From Post #7:
    "Electric is $0.05879 per kWh. Gas is $0.70478 per 100 cubic feet."

    Now, compare the cost of 1 million btu's of heat.

    Heat pump w/electricity at 6 cents per kw-hr (dirt cheap), C.O.P. = 3.6 at 36F ambient:
    (1,000,000 / 3414) x .06 / 3.6
    = $4.88

    Straight electric resistance heat:
    = $17.57

    Natural gas w/gas at $.71 per ccf, 80% efficient furnace:
    (1,000,000 / 100,000) x .71 / .8
    = $8.88

    With a 95% efficient furnace:
    = $7.47

    The heat pump is still 65% cheper than the 95% AFUE gas furnace.

    As the ambient temps increase from the 35F example, C.O.P. increases and the heat pump is even cheaper to run.

    Take care.
    I hate to use rule of thumb as an exsample but here goes anyway .. A 95 % furnace will or should outlast a hp . While some hp's last a long time most use the rule of thumb 8-12 years life span on a hp . Even tho electric appears cheaper it may in the long run be more expensive .
    My avatar is a picture of a Goodman Silencer .....These were commonly used in Goodman country ....Photos by hvac tech ( PaysonHVAC )

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Upstate, SC
    Posts
    2,914
    All good points, but most of the country has also been experiencing the coldest weather they have seen in 10 or more years for the past few weeks. My electric bill last month was the highest I've ever had, but I expected it because of the Christmas lights and the cold weather.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    cincinnati ohio
    Posts
    2,020

    gas/hp

    As long as its natural gas its your call . If its propane than go electric/hp combo
    My avatar is a picture of a Goodman Silencer .....These were commonly used in Goodman country ....Photos by hvac tech ( PaysonHVAC )

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    774
    Willserve, Why is it that an empty house costs more to heat and cool?

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by bob hubbard View Post
    I hate to use rule of thumb as an exsample but here goes anyway .. A 95 % furnace will or should outlast a hp . While some hp's last a long time most use the rule of thumb 8-12 years life span on a hp . Even tho electric appears cheaper it may in the long run be more expensive .
    Point taken.

    One has to also compare the purchase cost of the furnace vs the heat pump, as well as consider the energy savings in a/c mode with a new 13 SEER or greater vs the older 10 SEER unit.

    Take care.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Pan Handle, Fl
    Posts
    598
    Quote Originally Posted by MicahWes View Post
    Willserve, Why is it that an empty house costs more to heat and cool?
    Things in your house like carpet, furniture, people, plants, animals, taking a shower, cooking a meal, drying clothes, etc creat or retain heat. These absorbing materials usually help in retaining room temprature like food in a refrigerator or freezer. I'm not saying this is the reason for the high electric bill, but I would think it is a contributing factor especially if any work is being done to the interior of house.
    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome!

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