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  1. #1
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    Dec 2009
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    Ductless (multi-split) geothermal (GSHP) ?

    Historic house is three-story, 180-years-old, solid brick interior and exterior walls with installed (some badly) ducts. Low-R envelope and resulting high energy $ has driven us toward 9-ton, closed-loop geothermal solution.

    And unusual heating and cooling loads and difficulty of installing ductwork through brick walls -- especially to second floor -- make at least partial ductless multi-split from GSHP attractive. (Hydronics alone don't solve cooling need.)

    There are plenty of split GSHPs with conventional air handlers available, but seemingly no ductless GSHP systems. Is there a commercial solution? Or would one have to be customed engineered? Seems like some progressive company would have been onto this combination by now.

    TIA ... Marc

  2. #2
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    Nov 2007
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    The preferred solution is either Liquid-to-Water or DX-to-Water Geothermal Heat Pump(s) with Hydronic fan coils. This solution will satisfy both heating & cooling - without the need to install forced air ducts! Only (relatively) small holes will have to be made to pass ~1in. pipes (plus insulation).

    SR

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsq4cw View Post
    The preferred solution is either Liquid-to-Water or DX-to-Water Geothermal Heat Pump(s) with Hydronic fan coils. This solution will satisfy both heating & cooling - without the need to install forced air ducts! Only (relatively) small holes will have to be made to pass ~1in. pipes (plus insulation).

    SR
    Thanks for the prompt reply.

    DX is not an option (I'm a hydrogeologist and that much refrigerant in the ground gives me the willies ...). A water well was drilled for open-loop but it failed to provide adequate volume for heat pump. [I'm also an optimist ;-) -- It will be re-purposed/salvaged for garden irrigation. ]

    One of the most problematic rooms already has a Trane heat-only console. Ridding the room of that eyesore was one of the anticipated benefits of the HVAC make-over. A hydronic valence was considered when the open-loop supply was anticipated. We have not re-visited that option. Suggestions?

    Also: Residential *high-efficiency* liquid-liquid GSHPs are hard to find. WaterFurnace's Synergy 3D has good efficiency (although less than Envision) but its liquid loop is heat-only (Why !!? )

    ... Marc

  4. #4
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by hult View Post
    Also: Residential *high-efficiency* liquid-liquid GSHPs are hard to find. WaterFurnace's Synergy 3D has good efficiency (although less than Envision) but its liquid loop is heat-only (Why !!? )
    Ground-loop efficiencies for Heat Controller's Comfort-Aire new HWW Series Water-to-Water Systems don't look so good once one realizes that they have the data for ground-water and ground-loop reversed ...

    http://www.heatcontroller.com/products/pdf/HC-HWW-B.pdf
    http://www.heatcontroller.com/produc...W%20models.pdf

    ... Marc

  5. #5
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    Mar 2015
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    I have a similiar problem, but I only have around 1500 square feet to heat. The house was built in the 1930's and there are no heating ducts. I would like to use a geothermal heat pump to heat between one to as many as four air exchange fan-coil heating units. As yet I have not been able to find such a system on the market. Is there such a system? or Could I design my own and could anybody help me with such a design?

  6. Likes GT1980 liked this post
  7. #6
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    Mar 2015
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    if you can help me with this project please send me an e-mail to: < Please put your email address in your profile, they are nt allowed in post, thank you. >
    Last edited by beenthere; 03-24-2015 at 02:37 PM. Reason: email

  8. #7
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    Mar 2015
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    Need help recomending a system

    Quote Originally Posted by geoductless View Post
    if you can help me with this project please send me an e-mail to: < Please put your email address in your profile, they are nt allowed in post, thank you. >
    I am a new homeowner, not a professional in the business, and do not readily understand the jargon. I have aproximately 1200 to 1500 square feet that I need to heat and dehumidify or drive off the moisture; I live in the wetest region in the lower 48. I have no heating ducts, and do not want to use them. I would like to install a geothermal heating system housing the pump in my unfinished basement, and running two coolant lines up through the basement to two different locations along the same wall separating my kitchen and living room from the bathroom and two small bedrooms with connecting hallway between the bedrooms which are located at the two ends of the house. There is a location along that wall where a heating/cooling coil and fan could be installed on both sides of the wall which could heat the bedroom and kitchen, and there is a similiar spot west along that wall where the same type set of dual heating/cooling coils and fans could be located heating the second bedroom and the living room. I would like to be recomended a geothermal system which could be set up this way. I need to know the exact product and where and how to go about obtaining and getting it installed.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    NORTHERN
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    ductless homes with GTHP geothermal hydronic fancoils

    Hydro-Zone is a tm of Hydro-Temp for the chilled water and HW off of a forced-air same-unit system that uses the rfg off the air HX coil with modulated or no blower speed--- just for Mini-like distribution to console fancoils etc... but EER's higher, and the Heat-Reclaim 100% on demand HW IS pushing COP's near 6 as in cooling mode, the loop pumps are off line. 4zn board

    Insulated pex to a Hot and Cold fluid fancoil unit, even higher pressure air ducted like a unico/ just better has been done by contractors.

    If using UNICO system split air handlers with GTHP "condenser" sections, then up the air coils for heat pumps a ton larger than the Hydro-Temp or other splits.

    I f Daiken has their ducts in a row, then their AIR HPump ~therm-- Domestic HW has heat reclaim too whilst Cooling is giving A/C heat rejected to a bronze circulator to a water tank (just not sure of their complete achievement)...

    Hydro-Zone(tm) Hydro-Temp has NOW for about 3 years worked well with using VARIABLE compressors controlled by BACNET DDC systems , entirely residential as is institutionally used (that since 2009). Nicely "bug-free" so far.

    EER's hit 45 acclaimed: just like many now in the mid 40's; but with heat-recovery (patented 1981, why so few big name users waited to see) heat reclaimed 100% in cooling modes to HW needed puts the EER's into near 55 easily [2:for:1, usage] (even small 2.1/2 ton units run near 24/7 with this off-the-shelf a/c dehumidifyer use making even ice melt at out-door-pads at/in permeters of larger structures in the winter time).
    Last edited by GT1980; 11-05-2015 at 12:40 PM. Reason: their now
    Process cooling: NO COMPRESSORS Earth-Coupled since 1996
    ... however, much still needs to be hybridized energy transfer.

    CLOSED LOOP 2015 listed EER's
    even 49+ now; and "blended from low to high variable speeds" for 32deg.F ~ E-Star

    Perhaps you need a 32F Chiller/HW-Heat: buy a GEO-T Heat Pump (GHP with Heat-Recovery)
    http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...mal_heat_pumps

    http://www.hydro-temp.com/products.html and Bosch/Carrier and AquasystemsInc.com

  10. #9
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    Mar 2008
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    northern Indiana
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    They make a hydronic heat and cool coil that looks and works like a ductless split system. They need water lines, drain, and electrical connection. No outside unit required with water to water GSHP.

  11. #10
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by teeball57 View Post
    They make a hydronic heat and cool coil that looks and works like a ductless split system. They need water lines, drain, and electrical connection. No outside unit required with water to water GSHP.
    And most of what I've seen are floor-mounted consoles that look straight out of a 1960's government office building .... Can you steer me to a low-sone, high-mounting, unit that has a hand-held remote and other features that characterize the current crop of split mini ductless?

    My original question remains: Are there any modern multi/mini-split that use geothermal/GSHP technology ?

    Thanks!! Marc

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hult View Post
    And most of what I've seen are floor-mounted consoles that look straight out of a 1960's government office building .... Can you steer me to a low-sone, high-mounting, unit that has a hand-held remote and other features that characterize the current crop of split mini ductless?
    Answering my own question:

    http://www.multiaqua.com/

    Any others?

    Thanks ... Marc

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern Indiana
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    And most of what I've seen are floor-mounted consoles that look straight out of a 1960's government office building .... Can you steer me to a low-sone, high-mounting, unit that has a hand-held remote and other features that characterize the current crop of split mini ductless?

    I'm not referring to floor mount units....See Mr. Google> Multi aqua!

  14. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbia,SC
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    Water sourced mini-splits

    I have not found any water sourced mini-splits but the commercial versions of mini-splits labeled VRF or VRV (for variable refrigerant flow or volume) offer water sourced condensers. Look at the Mitsubishi City Multi as well as the Daikin VRV equipment. I'm sure competitors like Sanyo and LG probably offer them too. All I have found so far are available in 3 phase power only so none address the residential market where 3 phase power is rare.

    I would definitely like to see single phase water sourced mini-splits.

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