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Thread: out of ideas

  1. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    You might find it's best to just a thicker skin with some of these guys. Airmechnical, jpsmith and some others can get testy sometimes, but then again they've been on here longer and I think they just get fed up with some of dumbbunny's that show up now and again. They are often the first ones to show up with some good advice when you need it, so my advice is save the anger for some of the real smartass's here. You will know em when you see em.
    Thank you, very sound advice. There was no anger involved, frustration.

  2. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    By the way Frue, what is your next course of action?
    At the moment, I can do nothing. The customer refuses any other technician that my company offers, and I am booked solid for the forseeable future. He has offered to pay the O.T. rates for me to come by off hours, so that's probably what I'll do. Ball's in his court, I recommended that he have the motors bench tested at a local electric repair shop. He will probably ask his electrician to do this because I am not available during normal hours. I'm ok with that.

  3. #81
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    I see no shame in contacting the already on-site electrician to re-confirm your power distribution, I am at a loss for words when it comes to not consulting/nor the willingness to consult the design data.

    You seem to have only 2 tools in your truck a voltage meter and a amp meter? trust me when I say this and I have been doing this longer then you have been alive that sometimes it requires one to step back and look seriously at the design.

    What the load IS or IS NOT matters! very easily, let me repeat, very easily confirmed via static and the designed curve.

    You are not using all that you have available to you, why?

    do you not have Google? "if" not then get it and look up motor BHP and motor power factors!

    I guarantee you that "if" this does not help in your current situation, that it will help in future situations ;-)

  4. #82
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    I'd be frustrated too.

    At this point, I would ask the power company to install a monitor after explaining what is going on. It can be surprising to find a power factor that is unexpected at the service entrance.

    Please, keep us informed as to how this mystery is solved.
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  5. #83
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    Fruecrue: Where does the pool cover motor gets its power supply from? What does it share in common with the blower motor as far as power supply or grounds?

  6. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthingt View Post
    I see no shame in contacting the already on-site electrician to re-confirm your power distribution, I am at a loss for words when it comes to not consulting/nor the willingness to consult the design data.

    You seem to have only 2 tools in your truck a voltage meter and a amp meter? trust me when I say this and I have been doing this longer then you have been alive that sometimes it requires one to step back and look seriously at the design.

    What the load IS or IS NOT matters! very easily, let me repeat, very easily confirmed via static and the designed curve.

    You are not using all that you have available to you, why?

    do you not have Google? "if" not then get it and look up motor BHP and motor power factors!

    I guarantee you that "if" this does not help in your current situation, that it will help in future situations ;-)
    Are you ever going to address some of the post here asking you whether you believe a motor with no load will pull FLA? Or how does your fan curve theory relate to a motor not pulling a fan?

  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    Are you ever going to address some of the post here asking you whether you believe a motor with no load will pull FLA? Or how does your fan curve theory relate to a motor not pulling a fan?
    Might as well help you too, here is the link http://lmgtfy.com/

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthingt View Post
    Might as well help you too, here is the link http://lmgtfy.com/
    You are obviously smart and experienced and edumacated-but with respect, you are comming off as nothing more than an insulting individual who may actually be not as smart as he thinks he is if you believe a motor disconnected from a blower wheel is going to pull more amps than if it was under a load. This is why I and others have asked you to clarify your statement, and not by posting some link. Plain language us "folks' can understand.

  9. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    You are obviously smart and experienced and edumacated-but with respect, you are comming off as nothing more than an insulting individual who may actually be not as smart as he thinks he is if you believe a motor disconnected from a blower wheel is going to pull more amps than if it was under a load. This is why I and others have asked you to clarify your statement, and not by posting some link. Plain language us "folks' can understand.
    I am trying to explain this in plain language, but the subject is not exactly that plain. I know there is a rotor and a stator and magnetic poles and things that go round and round, tis all I ever thought, never gave the design thing a second guess till getting into larger motors, going behind folks like these, getting more edujumacated, etc. Not saying that anyone here is not...........

    Trust me here, there is more to motor design and construction then most would ever guess.

    So I went for analogies like the replacement condenser 1/8th HP fan motor with the 5HP. That for whatever reason "all" techs seem to know will never work, but do they know why? most do not..........

    Like the post that stated/asked have you ever pulled a resi blower motor to blow air too??? and it did not work, it over heated/ over amped and failed. Blocked off the supply a bit and like magic it worked? crazy, eh?

    Lets just back to the true subject at hand,,,,,,,

    You have tools outside your tool bag and on occasion you need to use them, i.e. design specs.

    In other words,,, you have a unit and ducted/wired by others, you bid X for the job,,,,, you/they find an issue,,,,, you have your ducks in a row,,,,, you BILL the guilty party :-)

    Right now,,, this guy has no ducks in a row,,,, missing pieces to the puzzle.....

    Why?

  10. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthingt View Post
    I am trying to explain this in plain language, but the subject is not exactly that plain. I know there is a rotor and a stator and magnetic poles and things that go round and round, tis all I ever thought, never gave the design thing a second guess till getting into larger motors, going behind folks like these, getting more edujumacated, etc. Not saying that anyone here is not...........

    Trust me here, there is more to motor design and construction then most would ever guess.

    So I went for analogies like the replacement condenser 1/8th HP fan motor with the 5HP. That for whatever reason "all" techs seem to know will never work, but do they know why? most do not..........

    Like the post that stated/asked have you ever pulled a resi blower motor to blow air too??? and it did not work, it over heated/ over amped and failed. Blocked off the supply a bit and like magic it worked? crazy, eh?

    Lets just back to the true subject at hand,,,,,,,

    You have tools outside your tool bag and on occasion you need to use them, i.e. design specs.

    In other words,,, you have a unit and ducted/wired by others, you bid X for the job,,,,, you/they find an issue,,,,, you have your ducks in a row,,,,, you BILL the guilty party :-)

    Right now,,, this guy has no ducks in a row,,,, missing pieces to the puzzle.....

    Why?
    With all due respect, I am not missing pieces to the puzzle. Why would I bring design specs and blower curves into play, if I cannot even run the motor under no load conditions. I fully understand your examples but believe they have little relevance here, but also know they have significant importance. I have studied blowers and air balancing in detail. I agree with your residential blower analogy, like a pump with no restriction to flow will draw more power than designed. I see that quite often. Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.

  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruecrue View Post
    With all due respect, I am not missing pieces to the puzzle. Why would I bring design specs and blower curves into play, if I cannot even run the motor under no load conditions. I fully understand your examples but believe they have little relevance here, but also know they have significant importance. I have studied blowers and air balancing in detail. I agree with your residential blower analogy, like a pump with no restriction to flow will draw more power than designed. I see that quite often. Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.

    Well, perhaps the 4th or 5th or 6th motor then will workout for you?

    Don't give up, keep changing motors, eventually one of us old guys will takeover and read the specs. Then this burden of yours will be off your shoulders.

    Good luck to you!

  12. #90
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    Chris, there are some pretty smart and pretty experienced guys that have read your posts and understand the importance of ALL of what you are saying in regards to design, static pressure, fan curve etccc.... We understand blocking off the supply will reduce the amount of work the motor will do and thus lower amp draw.

    You are the one missing everyone's point here and still have not answered the general question. A motor with nothing wrong with it just sitting on a bench with no blower wheel attached and the proper voltage is given to it. It will not draw FLA as you apparently stated before, the amp draw will be significantly lower than it would be if it was in a system in was correctly designed for and under a normal load.

    You not acknowledging that fact, or straight out telling us WE ARE ALL WRONG is frustrating and is obviously making you come out looking bad to us. It's weird, you're very smart and knowledgable, but this one thing is elluding you.
    Last edited by tipsrfine; 12-27-2009 at 02:35 PM. Reason: One spelling error was real bad

  13. #91
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    [QUOTE]We understand blocking off the supply will reduce the amount of work the motor will do and thus lower amp draw.[/QUOTE]

    OK, the supply has zero static, worse yet this space due to its nature and someone screwing up could be in a negative? The OP's company did not spec out the duct work. NO where does it mention static in this thread. Why????? Would it not be a valid question to ask what the static is? and why would it ever be a time to totally disregard the specs in a diagnosis like this?

    Sooo, really we understand this? but did not ask? I would assume a highly educated Apprentice with 4 years would? silly me....

    Yes I am saying a lot of motors, including blower motors are designed to have a load on them and when not,,, you bet,,,, they will over heat and over amp! GOOGLE IT!!

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