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Thread: out of ideas

  1. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmechanical View Post
    I tested it today "again"

    my job today was going behind Testing and balance, and follow there advice

    the Test and Balance company had me replace a 2 hp motor with a 3 hp motor and a 7 inch drive pulley (which was bigger than stock) in order to attain the proper CFM

    i wired the motor before i mounted it because of it's location, then i thought about some of yall

    i fired up the motor without a pulley or anything on it

    FLA was 9 amps at 230 volts and 4.5 amps at 460 volts, my supply voltage was 230

    the motor drew 4.8 amps "unloaded"

    once i installed the non adjustable pulley, it drew 13 amps, as you know Test and Balance never gets this right the first time

    that's why i purchased an adjustable shiv while i was at the supply house the first time

    to finish the story, i installed the adjustable shiv opened up the shiv to attain an amp draw of 9.3 amps

    there was a 1.15 service factor so i called it done



    .
    I'm sure somebody somewhere is going to post something that explains why somehow your test was somewhat skewed. Theory is good for that.

  2. #184
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    *

    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    I'm sure somebody somewhere is going to post something that explains why somehow your test was somewhat skewed. Theory is good for that.
    i have said many times here on HVAC-TALK;

    book smarts and theories are one thing

    "real world" problems and solutions are another



    .

  3. #185
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    My 2 cents

    Fruecru- try replacing the batteries in your DMS and re check your voltages again.(1 cent)
    Maybe all the motors got dropped?(1 cent)
    =0
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  4. #186
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    All this is starting to crack me up! You would think we were in the ARP section!

    Airmechanical. Don't forget that Fasco, not me, Fasco says it takes at least 2 hours for the motor, I assume unloaded or loaded or overloaded, to reach it's whatever heat.

    Anyway, I hope all you guys have a great and safe New Year. Be safe out there cause we will have to continue this next year!
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  5. #187
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    has the frequency/hz of the incoming power been checked?

  6. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    Fasco says it takes at least 2 hours for the motor, I assume unloaded or loaded or overloaded, to reach it's whatever heat.
    maybe a private message to CHRIS WORTHINGTON from the controls committee would be in order;

    a private message with your above quote

    then he can come back on here and tell us more specifically what he really meant or thought

    it's sad that after he made his controversial post he just ignored us

    i sort of can't blame him, when i have been wrong on this website, it is a bit embarassing

    but we all make mistakes, admit them and move on

    you will gain a ton of respect that way "CHRIS"

    this particular overheating without a load issue has been fun for me

    simply because "i have" tested these things before

    it was especially fun yesterday testing and coming up with the same conclusion

    you can twist reality, but you can't change it



    .

  7. #189
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    I'm just glad Airmechanical did the test and posted it. I'm still learning even some of the basic stuff on here and it is frustrating as a learner when there is a thread that has such opposite information. Opinions are fine, but that posting links to stuff and then speaking as an expert on the subject while really just talkin out your ass pisses me off.

  8. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    I'm just glad Airmechanical did the test and posted it. I'm still learning even some of the basic stuff on here and it is frustrating as a learner when there is a thread that has such opposite information. Opinions are fine, but that posting links to stuff and then speaking as an expert on the subject while really just talkin out your ass pisses me off.
    Several people have posted links, so it's not clear who you are insulting with your comment and from my perspective, insults aren't going to make this a better thread. Just read around the chest pounding...and don't add to the noise, which now I am also. Anyway lots of good things have come out in this thread and it's not done yet, grab a beer and watch!

  9. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pneuma View Post
    Several people have posted links, so it's not clear who you are insulting with your comment and from my perspective, insults aren't going to make this a better thread. Just read around the chest pounding...and don't add to the noise, which now I am also. Anyway lots of good things have come out in this thread and it's not done yet, grab a beer and watch!
    You're right about the good things about this thread. I came away knowing more about motors than I did before. It's almost scarry how much information you have to try and absorb about almost anything before you can even begin to say you know something about it. I know enough to know how much is left that I don't know.

    I still wish Fruecrue would have mentioned if he knew if that pool motor had anything more specific in common with the blower motor-like a junction box or anything. If those failures are related and the only thing they have in common is the same panel then it just has to have something to do with that new light system they put in. I don't know, but I do know there's a lot I don't know about a lot.

  10. #192
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    Drats.....I really wanted to take a vacation from this post for a while at least. Not saying anything is wrong or there has not been a lot of information going around, but it seems like it just goes on and on.

    Anyway, getting back to real field experiences of my own. Over the years I have installed or repaired motors that have flipped their belts and have run for who knows how long and all of them have been very, very hot to the touch.

    Present time example, took on a building that has 9 air handlers with belt driven blower motors from 1/2 to 3/4 HP. Had a history of no maintenace. One of the blower belts broke so the motor had been running 24/7 for who knows how long...months, I'm sure.

    Touched the motor and burn my hand. Had to wear glove to remove it so I could replace it because I no longer trusted that it was a good to go motor. I don't remember if it has a internal thermal overload or not. I know that the one I replaced it with did on purpose.

    So I'm just saying that electrical motors of our residential/light commercial types do get very, very hot to the point of damage when they just sit there and run without any load.

    The true experinment for this, if someone is willing to do it, is to mount a motor in a resonable temperature...68 or above...and just let the thing run while chart recording the shell temperature over a week or so and display the results.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  11. #193
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    Panel schedule

    A panel schedule would be good information..........also
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  12. #194
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    What do we KNOW

    We know we see similar characteristics (high amp draw) from multiple motors from multiple manufacturers.

    We know that this situation did not exist on a previous occassion. (I seem to recall this from an early post but I'm not going back through all posts to check)
    We know the wiring is correct.
    We know the Voltage is apparently OK.


    Given the above and the fact we have an enormous DC load attatched to same panel, I'd be leaning towards a latent electrical issue.
    Either the effect of lighting system, which could be eliminated by opening breakers feeding those circuits, hell shut down every other circuit while you are at it, leaving only breaker(s) that power(s)your equipment.

    If this does not change your findings, I'd bring in a little 230v generator, hardwire the motor to it and check again, my bet is that you have an incoming power problem, I once lost ground on feed to my house and some really wierd things were happening, like Garbage disposal starting when I turned off the TV!

    If this doesn't help I'll be at the bar......

    ..Newbie

  13. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by beckmech View Post
    Sounds very interesting. Can't wait to hear updates. The only thing I could add: is there any DC voltage going to the motor in addition to the expected AC? Perhaps some of the low voltage lighting has backfed or induced some sort of DC voltage that is screwing with the motor?? Just a thought. I worked on a reefer that had 24Vac and 10Vdc on the same line and it burnt out relay coils repeatedly before I discovered it. Let us know what you find.
    In response to plainjs, thanks for your input. You are not the first nor only one with these suspicions. Unfortunately, I can't get back to test these theories just yet. I added in the original post that I had shed lighting, which was very vague. In fact, what I had done was shut down approx. half of the total lighting at a control point in the master suite. I did not disconnect power to the lighting panels as you suggest, and I did not measure for DC voltage as above quote recommends.

    I have yet to bench test the motors(lots of opinions on this), which I believe will be informative as to whether I am dealing with motor or power supply issues.

    whatever the outcome, I'll gladly join you at the bar. how long is the ride from Buffalo?

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