All this is starting to crack me up! You would think we were in the ARP section!
Airmechanical. Don't forget that Fasco, not me, Fasco says it takes at least 2 hours for the motor, I assume unloaded or loaded or overloaded, to reach it's whatever heat.
Anyway, I hope all you guys have a great and safe New Year. Be safe out there cause we will have to continue this next year!
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
- Alexis de Toqueville, 1835
has the frequency/hz of the incoming power been checked?
maybe a private message to CHRIS WORTHINGTON from the controls committee would be in order;
a private message with your above quote
then he can come back on here and tell us more specifically what he really meant or thought
it's sad that after he made his controversial post he just ignored us
i sort of can't blame him, when i have been wrong on this website, it is a bit embarassing
but we all make mistakes, admit them and move on
you will gain a ton of respect that way "CHRIS"
this particular overheating without a load issue has been fun for me
simply because "i have" tested these things before
it was especially fun yesterday testing and coming up with the same conclusion
you can twist reality, but you can't change it
.
I'm just glad Airmechanical did the test and posted it. I'm still learning even some of the basic stuff on here and it is frustrating as a learner when there is a thread that has such opposite information. Opinions are fine, but that posting links to stuff and then speaking as an expert on the subject while really just talkin out your ass pisses me off.
Several people have posted links, so it's not clear who you are insulting with your comment and from my perspective, insults aren't going to make this a better thread. Just read around the chest pounding...and don't add to the noise, which now I am also. Anyway lots of good things have come out in this thread and it's not done yet, grab a beer and watch!
You're right about the good things about this thread. I came away knowing more about motors than I did before. It's almost scarry how much information you have to try and absorb about almost anything before you can even begin to say you know something about it. I know enough to know how much is left that I don't know.
I still wish Fruecrue would have mentioned if he knew if that pool motor had anything more specific in common with the blower motor-like a junction box or anything. If those failures are related and the only thing they have in common is the same panel then it just has to have something to do with that new light system they put in. I don't know, but I do know there's a lot I don't know about a lot.
Drats.....I really wanted to take a vacation from this post for a while at least. Not saying anything is wrong or there has not been a lot of information going around, but it seems like it just goes on and on.
Anyway, getting back to real field experiences of my own. Over the years I have installed or repaired motors that have flipped their belts and have run for who knows how long and all of them have been very, very hot to the touch.
Present time example, took on a building that has 9 air handlers with belt driven blower motors from 1/2 to 3/4 HP. Had a history of no maintenace. One of the blower belts broke so the motor had been running 24/7 for who knows how long...months, I'm sure.
Touched the motor and burn my hand. Had to wear glove to remove it so I could replace it because I no longer trusted that it was a good to go motor. I don't remember if it has a internal thermal overload or not. I know that the one I replaced it with did on purpose.
So I'm just saying that electrical motors of our residential/light commercial types do get very, very hot to the point of damage when they just sit there and run without any load.
The true experinment for this, if someone is willing to do it, is to mount a motor in a resonable temperature...68 or above...and just let the thing run while chart recording the shell temperature over a week or so and display the results.
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
- Alexis de Toqueville, 1835
What do we KNOW
We know we see similar characteristics (high amp draw) from multiple motors from multiple manufacturers.
We know that this situation did not exist on a previous occassion. (I seem to recall this from an early post but I'm not going back through all posts to check)
We know the wiring is correct.
We know the Voltage is apparently OK.
Given the above and the fact we have an enormous DC load attatched to same panel, I'd be leaning towards a latent electrical issue.
Either the effect of lighting system, which could be eliminated by opening breakers feeding those circuits, hell shut down every other circuit while you are at it, leaving only breaker(s) that power(s)your equipment.
If this does not change your findings, I'd bring in a little 230v generator, hardwire the motor to it and check again, my bet is that you have an incoming power problem, I once lost ground on feed to my house and some really wierd things were happening, like Garbage disposal starting when I turned off the TV!
If this doesn't help I'll be at the bar......
..Newbie
In response to plainjs, thanks for your input. You are not the first nor only one with these suspicions. Unfortunately, I can't get back to test these theories just yet. I added in the original post that I had shed lighting, which was very vague. In fact, what I had done was shut down approx. half of the total lighting at a control point in the master suite. I did not disconnect power to the lighting panels as you suggest, and I did not measure for DC voltage as above quote recommends.
I have yet to bench test the motors(lots of opinions on this), which I believe will be informative as to whether I am dealing with motor or power supply issues.
whatever the outcome, I'll gladly join you at the bar. how long is the ride from Buffalo?
Is what I said and still say as backed up by the various manufactures links and others, is that a motor dependent upon its construction can overheat while unloaded and once it is overheated, it can over amp at that point.
Real world,,,,,, replacing a 1/8th HP condenser fan motor with a 5HP condenser fan motor,,,, will be toast in a short period of time.
I have been watching this thread and believe that "all" has realized that there is more to a motor then amps and volts alone, there is the design of the motor with its power factors, break horse powers, service factors, etc, etc. That on occasion need to be considered when having issues on a newly installed/problematic system.
I also stated that on a newly installed/problematic system that sometimes the only thing that can truly help you diagnosis and repair the system is to know and understand the total design of the system. The "system" meaning all of it, the dampers, the coils, the duct work, etc.
My point, you need know more then amps and volts. A static reading and someone locating the specs on this unit, would have helped us to diagnosis this/ rule out design.
My problem with this thread and in the real world, is how often the design, the instructions, is ignored. I get several phone calls daily from techs stating that they have done this or that, replaced blah blah blah and now it does not work? when I ask if they have read the instructions and checked the other pieces to the puzzle, the answer is almost always no?
When I ask them to check "all" the pieces to the puzzle, read the instructions and to call me back "if" they have any more problems, I seldom get the return phone call, crazy eh?
That on occasion need to be considered when having issues on a newly installed/problematic system.
I think this is what caused most of the debate-you saying that this was one of those occasions.
what I said and still say as backed up by the various manufactures links and others, is that a motor dependent upon its construction can overheat while unloaded and once it is overheated, it can over amp at that point.
Well said Chris, design conditions that is the key
Local 30 New York, New York Operating Engineer
I agree with this based on general knowledge and from the latest information I've read-never disagreed. The only motor I've ever heard that can burn out pretty quick is a fuel pump in a car, since apparently they are cooled by the fuel.
But no fan or blower motor in the world is going to overheat and overamp in just a few minutes of running without a load. This is why design conditions and all that other science behind motors does not apply in fruecrues situation. Offering that knowledge to him as if it will resolve his issue at hand is just not helpfull, in fact it reflects pretty poorly on one's understanding of that science in the first place.