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  1. #1

    Thermostat wiring question

    Almost done here but may have the wrong thermostat. I have a SpacePak indoor unit, Goodman heat pump outdoor unit and a Honeywell RTH2410 thermostat. I'm installing this without auxiliary backup heat. The SpacePak wiring shows a wire between the C's on the indoor and outdoor units, and also between the C's on the indoor and thermostat. But the Honeywell doesn't have a C (Common). What do I do? Exchange for another thermostat? (It said it worked for heat pumps..)

    One thing I didn't show in the attached diagram, the Honeywell book says to jump the Y and W/AUX together for heat pumps without auxiliary backup heat. Consider that done.

    Thanks for any advice here.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    977
    First things first.

    Why did you choose Doctor Thunder as a moniker?? Just curious.

    One of the Mods will be along to help you with this particluar problem.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    523
    This isnt a DIY site so we cant really help you too much.

    However wiring the system as illustrated should work fine if that jumper was installed. But thats a 1 heat 1 cool stat and if it were me I would prefer a dedicated heat pump stat...

    Things YOU need to know. Any system needs to be wired properly, but more so is a spacepack system. It will freeze up and if not wired correctly it will make a very large mess in the cooling mode.

    Aside from wiring who is taking care of the charging of the system. If you want the system to last more then a couple years a high vacuum needs to be pulled on the system. With a goodman system it might not have a built in filter drier therefore I would recommend the installation of one. Then the charge must be adjusted in using superheat and subcooling methods. The tools to accomplish this are more expensive then someone doing it for you (a few times over).

    I would recommend having a professional service technician do all the fine tuning and tweaking.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Albuquerque NM
    Posts
    2,485
    I think normally you only need C to the stat if the stat can use transformer power to save battery life. Some stats don't have any use for C that's why they don't have it.

  5. #5
    Thanks for the advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by sprintmj19 View Post
    First things first.

    Why did you choose Doctor Thunder as a moniker?? Just curious.

    One of the Mods will be along to help you with this particluar problem.
    Because BeenThere was already taken.

    Additional reasons why. Between the time I posted and now I've been learning more about this forum. Excellent stuff.. a lot of great advice. But I question the non-DIY approach. Is this for liability or to protect the industry? The problem with the latter is that almost everything gets disrupted*. Over time, the dominant brand, product, industry etc., will lose share to the less expensive product that meets the customer's need. Usually it's in the low end of the market. (Southwest Airlines, open source code, the internet..) Why not embrace DIY? Why not profit from it?

    And btw, Dr Thunder < $.20 a can.

    * credit Clayton Christensen, The Innovator's Dilemma

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,935
    Sorry, this is not a DIY site. So we are not allowed to give out DIY advise.

    Please read Site Rules Thank you.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,935
    Quote Originally Posted by drthunder View Post
    Thanks for the advice.



    Because BeenThere was already taken.

    But I question the non-DIY approach. Is this for liability or to protect the industry?


    A combination of both of your above reasons.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Buffalo NY
    Posts
    3,084

    Thumbs up

    Very nice diagram.
    Join http://scopeny.org/ Shooter’s Committee on Political Education

    The world is full of sheep,try not to join the flock.

    Support the Skilled Trades, Don't DIY

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valdosta Ga
    Posts
    847
    I know what YC is I have no idea what YT is on your air handler (dito's on the wire diagram)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by drthunder View Post
    Thanks for the advice.



    Because BeenThere was already taken.

    Additional reasons why. Between the time I posted and now I've been learning more about this forum. Excellent stuff.. a lot of great advice. But I question the non-DIY approach. Is this for liability or to protect the industry? The problem with the latter is that almost everything gets disrupted*. Over time, the dominant brand, product, industry etc., will lose share to the less expensive product that meets the customer's need. Usually it's in the low end of the market. (Southwest Airlines, open source code, the internet..) Why not embrace DIY? Why not profit from it?

    And btw, Dr Thunder < $.20 a can.

    * credit Clayton Christensen, The Innovator's Dilemma
    I agree, the people that will DIY will DIY regardless. I try to explain why a professional should be doing it in an attempt to deter a homeowner from breaking something or hurting them self....

    We are service techs, we cant profit from other people doing our job. Embracing the unemployment line?

    However thats not the issue with me. If someone wants to fix there own furnace then more power to them. Most people are unable or just unwilling to fix there own furnace, and those people are my customers. I work on my own car and I dont lose sleep thinking about the poor auto tech even though 2 of my best friends are auto techs...

    So for me its not that I dont want people to DIY. Its just I'm going to use and share my knowledge with the person that wants to pay for it vs the person that wants it for free. Regardless I think I pretty much answered your question....

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Northern Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,006
    I always appreciate those that like the DIY method of installation. If they study hard and research what they're doing and follow all the instructions to the letter then there is a good chance that they've installed "whatever" at least as good as your average starting out contractor.

    What takes experience, continued training and dedication is knowing when not to do something, not how to do it.

    Whether it's installing a thermostat a complete heating and cooling system or brain surgery it's difficult at best and in most cases impossible for two people who don't know the capabilities of one another to transfer accurate and timely information between one another when they're not standing side by side.

    This may seem trivial when it comes to something that appears as simple as installing a thermostat, but as you found out instructions sometimes assume that the person reading them and looking at the diagrams has a certain amount of training and experience in the task. These days you also have to take into account that the instructions you are reading could very well have been written by someone in a different country coughchinacough that english is not their first language.

    The words in most installation manuals for HVAC items that go something like "to be installed only by a qualified heating professional" are put there by lawyers. The same lawyers working for the manufacturer that have spent years in court defending their employers from lawsuits brought by families of injured or dead loved ones because something didn't get done quite right. They are also there in the instructions because there are plenty of inexperienced people in this business that haven't learned all of their lessons yet. The same people that would tend to post a response to a homeowners DIY question not realizing that they could possibly be setting someone up to get seriously hurt or worse.
    Use the biggest hammer you like, pounding a square peg into a round hole does not equal a proper fit.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
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    4,842
    In the cyber world, there is just no way to judge the competency of a DIY poster. Let's face it, most of the professionals on here are probably also some of the most prolific DIYers on the face of the planet! I have customers who are more than competent when it comes to service and repair of their HVAC equipment and they know where to come for answers to their questions. They also know what their limitations are, that's why they are also my customers. With this site, once it's posted out in the general forums it's there for all to see, so ANYBODY can look at the suggestions and advice and have at it, sometimes with disastrous results.
    A good HVAC tech knows how, an educated HVAC tech knows why!

    DEM


  13. #13
    First, thanks for the replies on the wiring.

    Secondly, the responses confirm there are three main reasons licensed professionals choose not to help DIYers. Liability, safety and business. Allow me to argue those are the three main reasons pros should help.

    Liability. From a glance, it appears that many DIY posts on this forum come from a project that has stalled and the DIYer needs help. He/she is already invested in the problem and either lacks the experience to get over the hump or has exceeded their book knowledge on the topic. They are at a point of crisis, and may come to this forum for help. If they don't get the help they need they might a.) call a pro or b.) in classic DIY style, persevere on their own. They will use their judgment, trial and error, scientific method, etc. and will legally own the risk. Consequently, they might die. If liability were the only concern here, the pro's mission is accomplished - he/she has successfully CYA'd - not necessarily ethically, but legally. But was there legal liability here in the first place? If CynicX gives me advice that burns down my home, am I really going to sue? And if I did, what legal ground do I have vs an internet forum?

    Safety. If the pro was truly concerned about the DIYer's safety, and had the knowledge to resolve the problem and give potentially life-saving advice, the pro just might put his/her heart and soul into the advice. I don't know of any Hippocratic oath for HVAC, but I would think basic Good Samaritan ethics would dictate how we chose to interact with people in need.

    Business. At first, this category made the most sense to me. Any good industry has a "barrier to entry" which slows competitors from entering the market. But this how traditional Universities felt about Online Education a few years ago. They resisted the new technology to protect their market share. And those that are still resisting are missing out on more and more revenue every day. There are tons of other examples.. Online savings accounts can provide higher % returns since they don't have to pay as much face-to-face labor. Sure there are customers who will always prefer the old way, but there just might be a golden opportunity for pros that don't fight DIYers, but find a way to profit from them. That doesn't necessarily mean you should start your own online hvac school. But it could mean you build a really cool HVAC forum where good, safe, sound advice is given by experienced pros, where DIYers flock because they are welcomed and coached, and the hit counts quadruple while the advertisers pump in the cash.

    Or this. Create a site that allows anyone(DIYers, HVACers, etc.) to post specific problems for a fee.. maybe $20. Post the problem publicly with diagrams, photos, etc. and allow the entire HVAC community to respond for free with a suggested fix. All the responses would be confidential except for the moderator(s) and the poster. After some time period, the poster could choose which response was the best and solved the problem. As a reward, they would be given some % of that fee.. let's say $15. The moderator would keep $5 from every posting. This would drive fast, competitive problem resolution, reward clear & safe responses and make money for the resolver, the moderator and even the customer. Win-win-win. And you could make $ doing it from where you are right now. Just a thought.

    Merry Christmas and thanks again for the advice.

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