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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    103

    Question Forcing Defrost on Payne PH10?

    I'm in the blizzard. Outdoor unit it iced up and defrost isn't staying on long enough to remove all the ice. I know this isn't a DIY forum, but I need help.

    I've changed the defrost time lapse setting before. I turn off the heat at the thermostat, and pull the breaker at the outdoor unit before I take the control box cover off. I change the jumper and put everything back to normal. Easy.

    Now I want to force a defrost. I know this needs to be done with the unit running in heat mode. But:

    1) Is it the Jumper labeled "DFT" on this board http://www.arnoldservice.com/Hk32ea0...st%20board.JPG, and do I jump P3 to 1?

    2) Can I just use a screwdriver to jump the pins?

    3) Do I do this while the outdoor unit is actively heating with the fan running (ie, crank the indoor heat up so that the outdoor unit stays running)?

    4) Do I need make sure I do it for less than 10 minutes?

    No one is available to come out and do anything in the middle of the blizzard so it's just me and my screwdriver. PM me if you want my email address.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziocarl View Post
    I'm in the blizzard. Outdoor unit it iced up and defrost isn't staying on long enough to remove all the ice. I know this isn't a DIY forum, but I need help.

    I've changed the defrost time lapse setting before. I turn off the heat at the thermostat, and pull the breaker at the outdoor unit before I take the control box cover off. I change the jumper and put everything back to normal. Easy.

    Now I want to force a defrost. I know this needs to be done with the unit running in heat mode. But:

    1) Is it the Jumper labeled "DFT" on this board http://www.arnoldservice.com/Hk32ea0...st%20board.JPG, and do I jump P3 to 1?

    2) Can I just use a screwdriver to jump the pins?

    3) Do I do this while the outdoor unit is actively heating with the fan running (ie, crank the indoor heat up so that the outdoor unit stays running)?

    4) Do I need make sure I do it for less than 10 minutes?

    No one is available to come out and do anything in the middle of the blizzard so it's just me and my screwdriver. PM me if you want my email address.

    Thanks
    Switch to emergency heat. Then call your tech on Monday to fix.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by ascj View Post
    Switch to emergency heat. Then call your tech on Monday to fix.
    Wish me luck. I'm goin in!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    103
    Just kidding

    Did find this though:

    To initiate defrost, the defrost thermostat must be closed. This can be accomplished as follows:
    1. Turn off power to outdoor unit.
    2. Disconnect outdoor fan motor lead from OF2 on control board. (See Fig. 8.) Tape lead to prevent grounding.
    3. Restart unit in heating mode, allowing frost to accumulate on outdoor coil.
    4. After a few minutes in heating mode, liquid line temperature should drop below closing point of defrost thermostat (approximately 30F).
    5. Short between speed-up terminals with a flat-bladed screw-driver. (See Fig. 8.) This reduces the timing sequence to 1/256th of original time.
    (See Table 3.)
    6. When you hear reversing valve change position, remove screwdriver immediately; otherwise, control will terminate normal 10-minute
    defrost cycle in approximately 2 sec.
    NOTE: Length of defrost cycle is dependent on the length of time it takes to remove screwdriver from test pins after reversing valve has shifted.
    7. Unit will remain in defrost for remainder of defrost cycle time or until defrost thermostat reopens at approximately 80F coil temperature
    of liquid line.
    8. Turn off power to outdoor unit and reconnect fan motor lead to OF2 on control board. (See Fig. 8.)

    That sounds more like what I've seen the tech do many times.

    Just called the service company. No one is home. Left a message. My fingers are getting awefully itchy.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziocarl View Post
    Just kidding

    Did find this though:

    To initiate defrost, the defrost thermostat must be closed. This can be accomplished as follows:
    1. Turn off power to outdoor unit.
    2. Disconnect outdoor fan motor lead from OF2 on control board. (See Fig. 8.) Tape lead to prevent grounding.
    3. Restart unit in heating mode, allowing frost to accumulate on outdoor coil.
    4. After a few minutes in heating mode, liquid line temperature should drop below closing point of defrost thermostat (approximately 30F).
    5. Short between speed-up terminals with a flat-bladed screw-driver. (See Fig. 8.) This reduces the timing sequence to 1/256th of original time.
    (See Table 3.)
    6. When you hear reversing valve change position, remove screwdriver immediately; otherwise, control will terminate normal 10-minute
    defrost cycle in approximately 2 sec.
    NOTE: Length of defrost cycle is dependent on the length of time it takes to remove screwdriver from test pins after reversing valve has shifted.
    7. Unit will remain in defrost for remainder of defrost cycle time or until defrost thermostat reopens at approximately 80F coil temperature
    of liquid line.
    8. Turn off power to outdoor unit and reconnect fan motor lead to OF2 on control board. (See Fig. 8.)

    That sounds more like what I've seen the tech do many times.

    Just called the service company. No one is home. Left a message. My fingers are getting awefully itchy.
    I say go for it. Try anything you think might fix your unit. What's the worse that can happen?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by ascj View Post
    I say go for it. Try anything you think might fix your unit. What's the worse that can happen?
    Now that's the spirit!!! COWABONGA!!!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    23
    oh. it might be a relay.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    103
    No it defrosts, but the ice has built up on the oitside of the case beyond the coils. So while the coils get defrosted, the sheet of ice outside the fins remains and blocks airflow. I went out and set it to 30 minute delay instead of 50. Didn't have the guts to do a forced defrost even though I'm 96% sure that the procedure I found below would work safely.

    Service company still has not called me back. If things are still icey after a night of 30 minute defrosts, I just might take the chance.

    If anyone cares to at least confirm that the numbered procedure below looks right, that would be helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    23
    you might need to shut it down and defrost it by hand. its to cool and its freezing up to fast. the unit must be located in a bad spot for the temp. you are having.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,665
    Quote Originally Posted by ascj View Post
    Switch to emergency heat. Then call your tech on Monday to fix.
    this is your best option, if you go messing with the defrost board and fry something then you will have no heat

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziocarl View Post
    No it defrosts, but the ice has built up on the oitside of the case beyond the coils. So while the coils get defrosted, the sheet of ice outside the fins remains and blocks airflow.
    So if it defrosts properly, why are you trying to force defrost? You will solve nothing by forcing more defrost cycles.

    You have more issues here than you think. Do as others have said - put the EMER. HEAT ON and leave it until a tech can look at it.
    Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, learn the trade.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by rundawg View Post
    So if it defrosts properly, why are you trying to force defrost? You will solve nothing by forcing more defrost cycles.

    You have more issues here than you think. Do as others have said - put the EMER. HEAT ON and leave it until a tech can look at it.
    I don't think so. If it were allowed to defrost long enough I'm confident that the warmth generated would melt the external ice. I've seen it happen before. The manual says that icing over for a day or two during snow is normal. I thnk it's just a bad design. The fins are not attached to the coils like on my newer Trane. Also, I think heatpumps were never meant for this climate. But what do I know.


    Manual defrost? Pour warm water over it?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziocarl View Post
    I don't think so. If it were allowed to defrost long enough I'm confident that the warmth generated would melt the external ice. I've seen it happen before. The manual says that icing over for a day or two during snow is normal. I thnk it's just a bad design. The fins are not attached to the coils like on my newer Trane. Also, I think heatpumps were never meant for this climate. But what do I know.
    Sounds like you think you are an expert on this subject. So why again are you asking for advice?
    Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, learn the trade.

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