ReplyJust go with a hydron module. It's stainless steel heat exchanger and cabinet and has THE BEST WARRANTY on the market today guaranteed.
Professional Member*
[QUOTE=bberry;8578511] Does anyone know if Texas has anyone to inform about how this guy grouted the well? Are there any rules on how wells are drilled and grouted? [QUOTE]
Texas Dept. of Licensing and Regulation website has all the rules for drilling wells in TX. All drillers must be licensed with a few exceptions...and drilling geothermal wells is not one of them.
Last edited by texas cooler; 12-18-2010 at 08:10 AM. Reason: add bracket to quote
Avatar is a tribute to my Great Grandfather, Andrew Stewart. This pin was one of his advertisements for his heating and plumbing business. I never knew him but must of inherited his love of things mechanical since I am the only blue collar worker in the family
Professional Member
Just go with a hydron module. It's stainless steel heat exchanger and cabinet and has THE BEST WARRANTY on the market today guaranteed.
Regular Guest
Just thought I'd post this interesting story for additional info on the thread subject....
After going through 4 months of h_ll trying to get my FHP unit functioning reliably due to my contractor using a wrong TXV valve in my unit, I found via my loop installer a company that is considered the premier Geo installer/service in my area, and had them replace the incorrect valve.
I had noticed previously that they were a WF Geopro master dealer, but when they arrived they had a FHP sticker on their service van. I questioned them on this and was told they recently switched BACK to FHP from WF. Reason? The amount of air coil failures was not manageable anymore, and what WF reimburses for warranty repairs is not enough to cover their expenses to diagnose/repair, especially if the delta isn't passed on to the homeowner.
I kind of had a chuckle to myself due to what I've read on this forum.
New Guest
WF Inc
I can't open the jpg. images from post #51 of the stamp location on coil to verify FormiShieldPlus coating. My WF Envision series 38 was installed 12/2009. I believe before they started using this procedure. Where can I locate this stamping on coil?
Thank You, Jim
C/B Partner Rep
ravenjim,
We began using the FormiShieldPlus process in March of 2010. We have attached the images showing the location of the FormiShieldPlus stamping on the coil.
WaterFurnace International, Inc.
New Guest
Climate Master is a a good quality unit. We installed over 150 of them last year and have had great success.
Banned
Well, the new Waterfurnace split systems had their first breakdown 6 months into their "long" life. The same thing that every manufacturer has.....TXV failure. ALCO TXV....which I thought was a good one. Heat TXV in one unit clogged and apparently you need to adjust the other ones, because they are not keeping proper Superheat in cool. These stupid devices are supposed to make it more efficient, it seems they rarely work well.
Professional Member*
Most TXVs used to be reliable and accurate, but not any more. First Parker purchased Sporlan. Then the government decreed that 13 SEER was the minimum efficiency. Now, almost every one is using TXVs to boost efficiency. And I never did think much of Parker. And Sporlan, who made the the most and best TXVs has been Parkerized.Originally Posted by ChaseAir
Well, the new Waterfurnace split systems had their first breakdown 6 months into their "long" life. The same thing that every manufacturer has.....TXV failure. ALCO TXV....which I thought was a good one. Heat TXV in one unit clogged and apparently you need to adjust the other ones, because they are not keeping proper Superheat in cool. These stupid devices are supposed to make it more efficient, it seems they rarely work well.
Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.
Regular Guest
I've installed dozens of these units with no call back or issues.
Sounds like an installation error. I feel horrible for customers who trust their
fly by night geo contractor who probably only got into the business due to the tax incentives
Professional Member*
ChaseAir,
If the heat mode TXV "clogged" then it sounds like the installers took short cuts in their brazing process of installing the split systems. If nitrogen is not purged through the lines and indoor coils when the connections are being brazed, then copper oxide (a black scale) will form on the inside of the tubing. This oxide, if not trapped in the liquid line biflow filter drier can cause operational problems with not only the TXV's but also the reversing valve--a much more costly repair!!
Geothermal systems are not the only systems that this happens in, air-to-air systems and straight air conditioning systems will suffer if nitrogen is not purged during brazing. Nitrogen needs to be purged anytime there is any brazing on the system.
Professional Member
Maybe the manufacturers should listen to this also when they assemble these systems at the factory.
The trouble with life is there's no background music.
Regular Guest
The coils on the downstairs unit have failed, once again. (I have attempted to quote the original post with this message.) If it does not work, search on my messages posted by Williamsburg from last year.
My husband and the current HVAC company want to yank out both geothermal systems and send them to the dump, even though they are about 6 years old. Talk about a waste of money and anguish...
Has anyone had any experience with Climatemaster residential systems?
My vote is to forget geothermal and install high-efficiency conventional systems. They seem to go forever.
Williamsburg
(Who thinks geothermal is for the birds)
Professional Member
Every time that I've seem a heatexchanger on a Geo go out is because the loop is not done correctly. I would be more than happy to help any way. My email is kellerhvac@gmail.com. Do you know how the loops are laid out or anything like that? And climatemaster is a good unit by the way. Not what I sell, but a good unit never the less.
New Guest
WF Inc,
I am a homeowner with a GT unit just over 4 years old. Model:NDV064a111ctr
S/N xe3205. The installer, JK Mechanical (Willow Street, PA) has just informed me that my coil needs replacing and will cost about $1100. This makes at least 5 times in over 4 years that I have had faulty parts replaced or had the installer out to correct faults in the system.
In the Waterfurnace literature, your company seems to pride itself on reliability, a comprehensive warranty, and a "worry-free" experience. My experience with your product has been different. Judging from the contents of this thread, Waterfurnace has issues regarding the coils in its units and I am now facing a hefty repair bill to replace what seems to be a common problem with your product.
Your company should be receiving a call from the service manager at my installer this afternoon. I am requesting that you do the right thing, and cover this repair bill in its entirety.
Thanks for participating in this forum and giving us an opportunity to communicate with Waterfurnace directly.
Banned
I was told wf coils have an 80% failure rate in Florida. It is many times caused by formicary corrosion. Loops do not cause coil failure. Get the tin plated version..demand it.
Regular Guest
We had Bud's Heating remove both units a couple of weeks ago. There were Paradise units, which I understand were made in a Water Furnace plant. They were about 6 years old, and cost us $30,000.
The new units are Climatemaster and have a 10 year warranty. They also cost us $30,000. Our HVAC geothermal has now cost us over $60,000. I asked Buds to return the defective units to Extreme Climates, the people who installed the Paradise units for our builder about 6 years ago. I hope they did indeed take them back to EC. Bud's specifically recommended Climatemaster for the replacement, and not WF.
The Federal Government is giving out tax credits to encourage people to install geothermal, yet no one is tracking the failure rates. I think I will be contacting my congressman to let him know about our personal experiences.
Professional Member*
You should be happy with CM......30,000 seems like an awful lot to just replace the units or did you have earth loop work done also?
Banned
We removed 3 geothermals today...the 1985 models outlived the 1995 model by more than ten years....the 1995 had been dead for awhile....leaking water coils with open loop system.
Old style lasted 25 yrs. New style lasted 10-15....both brands were fhp(bosch)
Regular Guest
No loops--they were installed by Toano Well and are good. Just an upstairs and a downstairs unit.
C/B Partner Rep
dship,
The majority of air coil leaks are the result of an industry wide issue called Formicary Corrosion, which is caused by indoor air quality. Carrier performed a study of Formicary Corrosion, which we have attached for your review.
As a leader in the industry, we started coating our coils, to assist customers in fighting Formicary Corrosion in 2001. We were the first manufacturer to offer this new technology. As of March 1, 2010, we began using the FormiShieldPlus coating process in an effort to prevent Formicary Corrosion. All coils with the FormiShieldPlus are double coated and more durable over a wider range of corrosive agents. WaterFurnace is one of the first manufacturers in the industry to use this process and we feel that it will protect against Formicary Corrosion and prolong the life of the coils.
As for your warranty, the labor allowance for all repairs to our units is a set flat fee. We use industry accepted flat rate times and an average hourly rate for all repairs. The rate we pay does not vary from one contractor to the next. If the amount provided does not cover the contractor’s normal fee, or if it takes longer on a particular repair than the flat fee allows, the contractor makes the decision about whether or not they will pass through the cost to the consumer. The contractor is an independent business man and not under our control. We regularly check our warranty allowance with those of our competitors and find that we consistently cover more items for longer periods and at more generous rates than our competition.
WaterFurnace International, Inc.
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