What other options are there besides Waterfurnace

[crowl31]

I'm new here so please don't be to harsh if this is a repost or common knowledge to everyone else.

I'm about to start consturction in the spring on our new house (in Maryland) and I am setting appointments now with all subs and the only brand of geothermal system I can find is WaterFurnace Envision.

Who else has Geo Thermal systems?

Is there a site that has reviews/comparissions of the different systems.

Thanks!

[farbeondriven]

climate master, econair. two that we use besides water furnace

[Bergy]

GeoComfort and Hydron Module. Both are manufactured by Enertech Mfg.

Bergy

[dandyme]

Florida Heat Pump FHP

[crowl31]

Thanks for the replies.

[ChaseAir]

We can get Waterfurnace although our rep is very slow to get back to us. FHP has one of the oldest branches in our city, therefore they are the orneriest to deal with. They do not answer questions well, some of their equipment has serious defects in my opinion. For example: a cupronickel coil that is connected with large, thin copper fitting that get eaten up at the slightest hint of sulphur. Why would you want a durable coil and have fittings that are absolutely weak?

Climatemaster apparently does not want to sell to us in Jacksonville FL, I have contacted them numerous times.

[Williamsburg]

Three years ago we installed two Waterfurnace Versatec systems (dual zoned) for a new construction home. They have been under a maintenance agreement by the installer since they were installed. They cost about $30,000and up until recently, we were pleased with the systems.

A couple of weeks ago, in unseasonably cold weather, the downstairs unit stopped blowing hot air. The installer sent a technician. He said it was a coil leak in the compressor, and would cost $1,800 ($1,500 with the maintenance agreement discount) to replace. Two days later, the upstairs system did the same thing. The technician said it was also a manufacturing defect, and both were leaking in approximately the same place, from the sealed coils. We got a second opinion from another local Waterfurnace dealer. We were told the same thing. It was a manufacturing defect. The original installer called WF. They were told the part was made in Canada, so it was not their problem, they just put it into the unit. And the coils only had a 1 year warranty. Tough luck. The other local company called WF, too. Tough luck. We have replaced one unit ($1,500) and are waiting the week it takes for the part to come from Canada to replace the other 3-year old unit. Any cost savings in utility bills have gone up in smoke, plus, plus.

Waterfurance's literature about Versatec highlights how reliable the equipment is. Does this sound reliable? I understand this part is not unlike the coils on a refrigerator. My old Kenmore refrigerator ran for over twenty years. My new one is trouble-free after ten years. We would recommend and buy Kenmore again. No so with Waterfurnace. Not now. I am worried that the replacement coils on the Versatec systems will fail again.

My husband agrees it is a manufacturing defect. He is a professor of aerospace engineering at a large SE University and knows a bit about machinery. We are hanging onto the two defective parts, as I suspect these may not have been the only questionable units that came off the assembly line that day. There could be more coils that have failed or are about to fail, saddling the consumers with expensive repairs. Has anyone else had this problem?

[Some Dude]

If im not mistaken water furnace is also sold under different names as well.
I looked into selling them and never got a call back.

[junkhound]

A knowledgeable tech with a well equipped shop can fabricate/install a gshp or wshp from component parts that likely will outperform the best of the commercial units for less that the commercial unit list price.

However, to get most rebates or incentives (which can be appreciable, aka $1500 or so) the unit usually has to be ARI rated, which limits selection to the production units where th mfg has paid big bucks for the testing.

[rocky123]

A knowledgeable tech with a well equipped shop can fabricate/install a gshp or wshp from component parts that likely will outperform the best of the commercial units for less that the commercial unit list price.

[drsmith012]

My envision has a leaky air coil as well. But I have a ten year warranty. Yes I am disappointed that this has happened. My installer did mention that the replacement coils are noticably heavier than the ones originally installed. I really hope I get 20 years or more out of this thing.

[Kevin O'Neill]

Carrier.

[joemach]

I'm new here so please don't be to harsh if this is a repost or common knowledge to everyone else.

I'm about to start consturction in the spring on our new house (in Maryland) and I am setting appointments now with all subs and the only brand of geothermal system I can find is WaterFurnace Envision.

Who else has Geo Thermal systems?

Is there a site that has reviews/comparissions of the different systems.

Thanks!

We install lots of Climate Masters. I have not seen any major problems with their equipment. The small issues that we have had were handled very easily & quickly by our local water furnace dealer.

Water furnace has had problems with air coils for years. They can't seem to get it right.

Just remember, most warrantees only cover parts, not labor.

Hope this helps.

[FL_green_home]

My new, green home is less than two years old (6000 sq.ft.). I have two Waterfurnace Envision units (3.5 ton and 5 ton) running 2 and 4 zones respectively. Both units stopped heating this winter and I had to run the propane fireplaces to keep the house warm until I could get the original contractor back in to check the units. They are telling me today that both units have leaking coils and will need to be replaced! So, needless to say I am NOT happy with Waterfurnace right now. I will be calling them tomorrow to see what, if anything they will do about this besides provide replacement parts under the warranty.

Unhappy Customer

[Octopus]

The most efficent Air conditioner in the world= Shade, natural air flow...Etc.

Other than that check this out

Solar produced, steam driven, double effect, parallel flow, 16 kW Broad BCT 16 absorption chiller

http://www.wbdg.org/research/buildingtechnology.php?a=1

[WF_Inc]

FL green home,

We have read through your comments regarding your WaterFurnace units. We understand your concerns. If you will provide your model number, serial number, and the name of your installing contractor, we will request that the coils be sent back for testing.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[FL_green_home]

Here is the information for my units:

5 Ton Unit
Model: NDH064A101CSL
Serial #: X12968

3.5 Ton Unit
Model: NDH038A101CSL
Serial #: X12966

Contractor: Air Supply Inc., Crawfordville, FL, (850)926-5550

Sorry to post this information on this thread but I could not find a private messaging facility on this forum.

The leak testing and diagnostics alone cost me nearly $400 already... is any of this cost covered under the labor allowance part of my 10 year warranty?

Thank you for your help.

[WF_Inc]

FL green home,

Thank you for the information. Our 10 year parts and labor allowance warranty provides the part at no charge and a labor allowance to change out the part. The labor allowance for all repairs to our unit is a set flat fee. The rate we pay does not vary from one contractor to the next. If the amount provided does not cover the contractor’s normal fee, the contractor makes the decision on whether or not he will pass through the cost to the consumer.

We have been in contact with Air Supply, Inc. and requested that the coils be sent back for testing. Once we have received the test results, then we can discuss additional assistance.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[FL_green_home]

The contractor told me that the WaterFurnace labor allowance covers 30% of the labor cost... is this not correct? They have estimated $1327 to replace both coils and restore refrigerant... minus 30% (-$398) for a cost of $929 (plus the $388 I've already paid to diagnose the problem = $1317 total).

What is the amount of the set flat fee of which you speak?

[WF_Inc]

FL green home,

WaterFurnace is dealer direct, and unfortunately, we are unable to discuss pricing information with homeowners. The labor allowance is a set flat fee that does not vary from one contractor to the next. We use industry accepted flat rate times and an average hourly rate for all repairs. The contractor is independently owned and operated, and not under our control; therefore, they make the decision as to whether they will pass through the cost to the consumer.

We regularly check our warranty allowance with those of our competitors and find that we consistently cover more items for longer periods and at more generous rates than our competition. Any questions or concerns regarding pricing should be directed to the contractor.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.