What other options are there besides Waterfurnace

[Popoff]

WF, thank you for the prompt response to my post as well as the others.

I spoke to my dealer today (a WF authorized contractor) and he stated that they are contractually bound to WF to accept the labor charge paid by WF and not pass on any additional labor charges to the customer. This is different than what I'm reading in your most recent post.

From past direct experience and knowledge of his reputation in the area, I know my contractor to be an honest and reliable person so it puzzles me as to the contradiction between what he told me and what I'm reading here.

I've emailed him and am awaiting his reply. Any comments you would care to make would also be appreciated.

I'm looking at installing an Envision system and am excited about the prospect.

[WF_Inc]

Popoff,

WaterFurnace does not authorize anyone to service equipment on our behalf; however, we do have dealers that are able to purchase equipment from us. Our Owner’s Manual explains that the labor allowance is designed to reduce the cost of repairs. However, it may not cover the entire labor fee charged by your dealer. Not all warranty options include a labor allowance. All WaterFurnace dealers are independently owned and operated, and not under our control. If the dealer chooses not to pass those charges on to you, then that is their choice. Please visit our website, www.waterfurnace.com, and click on “Your Home.” Under “WaterFurnace Owners,” at the bottom left corner, you will find our Owner’s Manual.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[FL_green_home]

WF Inc,

I was not suggesting that WF was calling my installer dishonest. I was simply pointing out that there was a contradiction between what the installer told me WF would pay and the WF labor allowance schedule you sent to me. The labor allowance schedule you sent to me indicates that I am entitled to almost twice as much allowance as what the installer was giving me. When I informed the installer that I was given the allowance schedule by WF, they acted as if they did not know the amounts of the allowances for my units. When I told them the amounts, they immediately offered to credit me those amounts. I will leave any conclusions as to the honesty (or diligence) of my installer up to those reading this thread.

My question now is... is the refrigerant allowance noted at the bottom of the schedule ($11 per lb. per ton) in addition to, or included in, the labor allowance amount? And how does that amount apply to my 3.5 ton and 5 ton units? In other words, what does "per lb. per ton" mean?

[ChaseAir]

If you pay anything you are doing better than some of this junk out there that doesnt pay a dime when 8% of their coils fail in the first year....

Bottom line is people should not shop equipment so much as the company installing it because that is who you will deal with for the next ten years.

WF has a neat epoxy coil that everyone should use I wonder what their coil failure rate is?

And here's another 2 cents: by trying to make these things more efficient, they have made the coils so thin that they fail much more than they used to. I wonder how many of you people complaining about your air conditioner vote for environmental wackos who legislate this junk. How can leaking coils be more efficient?? The cure is worse than the disease.

[Bergy]

Thank you, Bergy, for explaining the the strange "Paradise" reference. Except it isn't Paradise, it's Enertech! That must be the company in Canada that replaced the leaky coils!? Is it just me, or is this all rather confusing?

Ok, if I am sifting through all the information correctly, I think our systems are indeed Waterfurnace, by default. That's what the two local dealers thought, too. But it sounds like the warranty does not vest with WF, but with Paradise, which is now Enertech? Enertech is in Canada (?) so they may have different manufacturing and consumer standards? Just wondering, since I do not live in Canada, but in the USA. The inside sticker on our units still say "Indiana."

It further seems that the installing dealer, who never asked us anything about any extended warranties, could have bought a longer-than-one-year warranty, but didn't. The Paradise (now "Enertech") warranty could have been upgraded with another company called Equigard. At least, I think this is right. Like I said, this is all pretty confusing for me. We now have two more new new names, Enertech and Equigard, in addition to Paradise. I wonder what the next name that pops up will be? One thing is for sure, our two systems have a pedigree with more names than Secretariat had in his pedigree. Ha!

Williamsburg;

Enertech contracted with WFI to produce equipment for them. Enertech sold them under the names "GeoComfort" and "Paradise". They were exactly the same as a Water Furnace unit, only the name had been changed. This is standard industry practice. At the time, WFI's warranty was 1 yr parts and 5 yrs compressor so that is the same warranty Enertech used. All of Enertech's dealers and, as far as I know, all of WFI's dealers could offer an extended warranty through "Equiguard". Equiguard is well know for extended warranties on all kinds of home equipment, Ground Source Heat Pumps among them. We offered 5 yr parts AND labor contracts as well as 10 yr parts AND labor contracts to our customers. I know it can be confusing... You may want to contact Enertech with your Model and Serial numbers just to verify it is one of their units and what the warranty is.

Enertech MFG. no longer works with WFI because they now manufacture their own units under the name "Hydron Module" and "GeoComfort". Their web site is...
www.enertechmfg.com or www.geocomfort.com.

Hope this helps

Bergy

[ChaseAir]

What criteria did you base your decision to go with the installing contractor on?

did you want the best product, the best service, or the lowest price? You can't have all three you know?

Waterfurnace is just a manufacturer, your contractor let you down. Whyy did you trust him again? Did he have written guarantees and good references? How can you be upset at Waterfurnace when you made the decision to go with a guy who doesn't cover a labor warranty?

What did your contract with him say? Is he really telling you he won't fix it if he had in writing that he would?

[WF_Inc]

FL green home,

The refrigerant allowance, included in the warranty purchased with your WaterFurnace equipment, is in addition to the labor allowance provided to the contractor. When a contractor files a claim on a refrigerant component, the contractor receives $11.00 for each ton; therefore, if you have a refrigerant claim on your 5 ton unit, your contractor would receive a $55.00 credit.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[WF_Inc]

Chase Air,

We are continually looking for ways to improve the quality of our products. As of March 1, 2010, we announced the release of our new coil coating method, FormiShieldPlus. All coils with FormiShieldPlus are double coated and more durable over a wider range of corrosive agents. WaterFurnace is the only company in the HVAC industry to use this process, and it is an immense quality improvement over other coil protection methods. All residential products shipped after March 1, 2010 will come standard with FormiShieldPlus.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[ChaseAir]

That double epoxy coating sounds nice. Do you know what your failure rate on coils is?

The Goodman//Amana brand last year had over 7% failure in the first year. This is my own unscientific estimate. I believe it may be more. We installed no more than 100 of their units last year and I need both hands to count the failures.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the reason they fail is formicary corrosion, thin copper (to achieve the wonderful efficiency rating) that is rifled on the inside easily creating small holes.

In effect the mandate for efficiency has created a weak spot in the unit evaporator coil making them fail a whole lot more..................

Isn't govt regulation wonderful?

[FL_green_home]

WF Inc,

My installer is here today replacing the coils. How can I verify that the replacement coils have the FormiSheildPlus coating. I just asked him if they did and he said "I don't know."

[WF_Inc]

Bergy,

The explanation you provided is correct. However, EnerTech did not take over the Paradise line until March 14, 2005. Before that time, Paradise equipment was controlled by other OEM customers and distributors. Williamsburg’s Paradise equipment was shipped to an OEM distributor prior to EnerTech.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[WF_Inc]

FL green home,

We have verified that the order placed for your replacement coils specified that they must be FormiShieldPlus. Please find images attached showing the location of the FormiShieldPlus stamp on the coils.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

[FL_green_home]

Thank you WF Inc for your quick responses. The installer is in the process of replacing the coils now. I also verified that they will be shipping the leaking coils back to WF for inspection.