Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 112
  1. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    12

    Angry Envision

    My new, green home is less than two years old (6000 sq.ft.). I have two Waterfurnace Envision units (3.5 ton and 5 ton) running 2 and 4 zones respectively. Both units stopped heating this winter and I had to run the propane fireplaces to keep the house warm until I could get the original contractor back in to check the units. They are telling me today that both units have leaking coils and will need to be replaced! So, needless to say I am NOT happy with Waterfurnace right now. I will be calling them tomorrow to see what, if anything they will do about this besides provide replacement parts under the warranty.

    Unhappy Customer

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In a mechanical room....
    Posts
    1,887
    The most efficent Air conditioner in the world= Shade, natural air flow...Etc.

    Other than that check this out

    Solar produced, steam driven, double effect, parallel flow, 16 kW Broad BCT 16 absorption chiller

    http://www.wbdg.org/research/buildingtechnology.php?a=1
    “It takes courage to grow up and turn out to be who you really are.”

    - E.E. Cummings

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    FL green home,

    We have read through your comments regarding your WaterFurnace units. We understand your concerns. If you will provide your model number, serial number, and the name of your installing contractor, we will request that the coils be sent back for testing.

    WaterFurnace International, Inc.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    12
    Here is the information for my units:

    5 Ton Unit
    Model: NDH064A101CSL
    Serial #: X12968

    3.5 Ton Unit
    Model: NDH038A101CSL
    Serial #: X12966

    Contractor: Air Supply Inc., Crawfordville, FL, (850)926-5550

    Sorry to post this information on this thread but I could not find a private messaging facility on this forum.

    The leak testing and diagnostics alone cost me nearly $400 already... is any of this cost covered under the labor allowance part of my 10 year warranty?

    Thank you for your help.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    FL green home,

    Thank you for the information. Our 10 year parts and labor allowance warranty provides the part at no charge and a labor allowance to change out the part. The labor allowance for all repairs to our unit is a set flat fee. The rate we pay does not vary from one contractor to the next. If the amount provided does not cover the contractor’s normal fee, the contractor makes the decision on whether or not he will pass through the cost to the consumer.

    We have been in contact with Air Supply, Inc. and requested that the coils be sent back for testing. Once we have received the test results, then we can discuss additional assistance.

    WaterFurnace International, Inc.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    12
    The contractor told me that the WaterFurnace labor allowance covers 30% of the labor cost... is this not correct? They have estimated $1327 to replace both coils and restore refrigerant... minus 30% (-$398) for a cost of $929 (plus the $388 I've already paid to diagnose the problem = $1317 total).

    What is the amount of the set flat fee of which you speak?

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    FL green home,

    WaterFurnace is dealer direct, and unfortunately, we are unable to discuss pricing information with homeowners. The labor allowance is a set flat fee that does not vary from one contractor to the next. We use industry accepted flat rate times and an average hourly rate for all repairs. The contractor is independently owned and operated, and not under our control; therefore, they make the decision as to whether they will pass through the cost to the consumer.

    We regularly check our warranty allowance with those of our competitors and find that we consistently cover more items for longer periods and at more generous rates than our competition. Any questions or concerns regarding pricing should be directed to the contractor.

    WaterFurnace International, Inc.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    10

    Question for the Waterfurnace Person on This Thread

    To the Waterfurnace Rep on This Thread,

    I also posted about our leaky coil problem on this thread prior to this gentlemen's ("Unhappy Customer") complaint.

    My post was "Waterfurnace Versatec Evaporator Coil Leaks" posted on 12-23-2009 at 2:42 PM)...I am the homeowner who had TWO Waterfurnace Versatec coils fail at the same time on two, three-year-old systems at Christmas. Sadly, we were out of luck. It sounds like this man just had a similar thing happen but he happily, got more than a one year warranty like we did. One thing we did learn: we should have been very proactive in researching and specifing the geothermal HVAC systems that we installed in our new construction home. Hindsight is always 20/20, I guess.

    These leaking coils are not small, inexpensive repairs. It brings the system to its knees and costs a great deal of money to fix. But at least you responded to this man's post. Mine received no such response.

    You are a Waterfurnace rep, so it is a rare opportunity to communicate directly with you, and not via "an independent dealer." The dealer that installed our systems no longer sells Waterfurnace--they have switched to a different manufacturer.

    Since you cannot discuss costs, can you discuss the equipment you sell?

    What is the expected average lifespan for coils in the systems you sell? I am curious...do you know...what is the average life span for kitchen refrigerators and radiators in large trucks...the coils are a similar design, right? Is there something really complex or complicated about the coil systems in geothermal systems that causes them to fail?

    Please forgive my ignorance. I am just a poor female homeowner who now worries every day about the reliability of the replacement coils we installed in our two systems at Christmas time---will they fail in the next few years, too? Any cost savings we had from the systems went up in smoke--rather disappointing, when we installed the expensive-up-front systems in order to save money.

    Please forgive me, but I am an unhappy (and concerned) customer, too.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    12
    So, Waterfurnace pays the dealer/installer an undisclosed amount for labor to fix a warranty issue... and then the dealer/installer gets to decide how much of that payment to credit to the homeowner. Can anybody else see what is wrong with that process? Why would a manufacturer allow their customer satisfaction to be left at the discretion of a third party (the dealer/installer)?

    My installer tells me that I only get 30% off my warranty labor... how is that even close to the industry standard for this type of repair? How can a customer even determine if they are getting the value of the warranty they paid for up front if the allowance is a secret between the manufacturer and the dealer?

    Shall we continue this discussion in a public forum or would you prefer to provide a name and phone number so that we can discuss this directly.

    Thanks.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    Williamsburg,

    We apologize that you did not receive a response to your post. WaterFurnace joined the social media networks in January of 2010 in order to better assist WaterFurnace owners. We are doing our best to respond to posts as they come in. We encourage anyone with an issue to contact us, so that we may offer our assistance.

    The life expectancy of our systems is 15-20 years, depending on the installation, application, and conditions under which they operate. The coils in refrigerators and automobile radiators have the same principal as the coils in our units; however, the design, application, and refrigerant are different.

    Unfortunately, we are unaware of what might have caused the leak in your coils. If you will provide your model number, serial number, and the name of your installing contractor, we will request that the coils be returned for testing, if they still have them. Again, we apologize that you were not responded to earlier. We are more than happy to work with you and your contractor to facilitate a resolution.

    WaterFurnace International, Inc.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fort Wayne, Indiana
    Posts
    97
    FL green home,

    We will be more than happy to provide the warranty schedule for your unit. Please confirm your email address so that we can provide this to you.

    WaterFurnace International, Inc.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    12
    You may send the information to: nospam_acct@mindspring.com

    Thanks.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    10

    Williamburg Unhappy Waterfurnace Customer

    Waterfurnace,

    Our systems were installed by Extreme Climates (757) 229-2191 on behalf of the best custom builder in this area. They replaced the two leaking air coils. They no longer sell your equipment. They have the information on our two units: I know they called you at the time. That is what they told me. Extreme Climates replaced both coil units for $2,400. They gave us a discount on the second unit because they felt bad for us. Our names are Colin and Clare Britcher and we live in Williamsburg. Perhaps you would like to give them a call?

    We had a second opinion from Bud's Heating and Air Conditioning (757) 890-2600. They told me that they contacted you at the time on our behalf as well. They do sell your equipment. We had them look at the installation, conditions, etc. and the written reports on both systems were clean. I thought I'd mention this BEFORE you got around to blaming the installation for the problem. We asked about the installation, conditions, etc. We were told it was fine. Both firms said they considered it to be "a manufacturing defect" in the coils.

    When both firms contacted you they were told, "1 year warranty." So you washed your hands and left it to the local dealer to punch out a solution and deal with us. Bud's now has our maintenance contract, as we thought we may get better customer service from you if the dealer sold your equipment, and Bud's seemed like a professional and customer-service oriented company. We also liked Extreme Climates but as I said, they have switched suppliers.

    I will ask my husband to respond to the group with serial numbers, etc. in the event that you choose not to conatct the installing dealer directly. Let me know if you need the serial numbers, and if you would consider furnishing us with your private telephone number, Email, and name. At this point, my only way to contact you is via this forum. I'd be happy to send you our private contact information, privately.

    My husband is a proferssor of Aerospace/Mechanical Engineering at a large southeastern university, and has worked for many years with NASA and wind tunnels. He was educated in Europe, where they require PhD students to do hands-on training on assembly lines: he knows his way around machinery and manufacturing. I believe you will find that he can discuss the equipment problems we had with your coils with some level of understanding. He said that in his opinion, the coils should NOT have failed so soon.

    Extreme Climates submerged the units in a wheel barrow filled with water in order to show me that the units were indeed leaking. They failed at almost the same time, and were leaking in almost the same place. The failures were confirmed by the second opinion, too. I know I asked this before...are coil leaks a common problem with your equipment? Just curious.

    We kept the leaky coils, on advice from the dealer. Where shall I send them?

    If the air coil units in the Versatec system you sell are reliable, then why are they only under a 1 year warranty? If they should last for 20 years, then why not warrant them for say 10 or 15 years and split the difference of the risk with your customers?

    I do truly appreciate your responding, finally. May I make a suggestion, though? In the future, when you join a group such as this one, you may want to do a group message search on "waterfurnace." That way you will get to see what everyone has had to say about their experiences, good or bad, and you can then respond to those customers who may have a problem that you can help to resolve. Just a thought.

Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event