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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by freerider View Post
    Like the Lakewood chief says "we will always look differently at people entering a coffee shop we are using, because of this". I don't think that is right. We should be the ones nervous around them. 9 times out of 10, they kill, not get killed.
    They will most likel be killing a lot faster now. The same attitude haunts police in Philadelphia. It has become a real "them against us" attitude with Philly police because a few of them have been shot and killed over the past couple of years.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #28
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    21,434
    This is indeed a difficult subject to think through...

    I have had both good and bad experiences with police officers over the years (decades).

    First off , I have never been 'busted' for DUI, drugs, theft, vandalism, or any of the other stuff many younger folks get into... some of that was dumb luck and some of it was that I sampled rather than indulged in the ways of youth...

    I can say this about the current crop of officers though: Most of them seem to have an ax to grind. As far as whether they learned it at the LE academy or on the street... I think both. Here are a few examples:

    1) Stopped for a tail light out... Geek looking officer about 100# soaking wet... who looked and acted as though he had been out of LE school for only a few months... he was visibly nervous about dealing with someone over twice his size and weight. I stood outside my vehicle and he told me to either get inside the car or he would arrest me for harassing a police officer... My thoughts: Since when does an officer get to harass a citizen unfairly to 'feel' safe???
    Yes, I am well aware that officers get hurt and killed... but if an officer is not smart enough to tell the difference between a good old GA boy and a criminal... should they be on the street??? Kinda like the peter principle...

    2) Traffic accident at a dark intersection (no street lights). Five (yes five) squad cars with those blue light bars lit up... literally a blinding amount of light. I was the ONLY car driving by and was going slow to avoid hitting something because the lights were too bright... One officer yelled at me (and I am quoting this) What the F**K is wrong with you, get the H*ll down the road. My thoughts: If you are having a bad day, it is not my fault.
    Why do they need lights sooo bright one is blinded to feel safe??? And why does it take 5 cars to investigate a minor accident with no injuries. And why the attitude?

    3) Go into the local QT (Quick Trip, local convenience store chain) for a soda along with gas. Officer standing there looking around. I asked him if there was any problems... he was really polite and respectful; said the store asked him to tarry there for about 15 to 20 minutes when he stopped in; just to make a presence. I asked him if crime was up, he said not really... We got into a really positive conversation and I ended up servicing his HVAC for him. Really nice guy.
    Observation: This guy did not have an elitist attitude, he was just a person with a job that required a uniform, badge, and gun.

    My question: Why were the first two real jerks, while the third was a nice guy?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #29
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    Feb 2006
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    Float'N Vally, MS
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Officer standing there looking around. I asked him if there was any problems... he was really polite and respectful; said the store asked him to tarry there for about 15 to 20 minutes when he stopped in; just to make a presence. I asked him if crime was up, he said not really... We got into a really positive conversation and I ended up servicing his HVAC for him. Really nice guy.
    Observation: This guy did not have an elitist attitude, he was just a person with a job that required a uniform, badge, and gun.

    My question: Why were the first two real jerks, while the third was a nice guy?
    Training and Experience...

    Who goes into this "trade"? Usually (not always) people with a "macho" or "little man" (like the geek above) attitude. Police training or academies are suppose to weed through this, they don't like everything that is PC today. Also some areas are having a tough time filling the needs with qualified applicants (sounds familiar?).

    True Story.. Years back my Dad (State Fire Marshall) was pulled over blue lights siren and all, while in his pickup. All the police knew him so he thought this guy just wanted to talk. This old fat guy gets out of the truck and the young cop draws down on him!

    He tried to get his ID and badge and the young police officer wouldn't hear of it. He handcuffed him on the front of the patrol car and called for backup...
    When the backup arrived the "ship hit the sand". Dad didn't push anything but the guy had a very short career.

    What I am saying is I believe once they are finished with the academy they are turned loose on the streets. In years past you rode with a seasoned officer for a long time before going solo...
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  4. #30
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    21,434
    Currently on A&E (10:00 PM EST) "Steven Seagall, Lawman".

    Seems the movie star has been a beat cop in New Orleans (Sheriff in Jefferson County) LA for the last 20 years.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    graham washington
    Posts
    55
    Well...... this is an intresting thread on a unspeakable tragedy!! I live 10 mins from the crime scene.. i drive past that strip mall almost everyday, one of my co-workers dated one of the fallen officers in high school, my niece plays fast pitch with the daughter of one of the fallen officers, my cousin lives in the same subdivsion as one of the fallen officers.... our commuinity is pretty tight knit.. the public servants were not on duty yet..the coffee shop they were killed in is very close to the the lakewood police station. I dont know if you guys have heard but the coffee in the greater puget sound area is pretty good!!! so it is very common to see police officers gathered into one of the local coffee houses in this area. the suspected killer had been telling people in his circle that he was going to kill a bunch of cops and to watch the news!!! he bailed out of jail on nov 23rd after the the state of arkansas had revoked his parole violation no bail order. they did not want the scumbag back.. this cleared the way for him to make bail on the charges he was being held in pierce county jail for. this tragedy proves that if somebody is hell bent on causing mayhem their is very little that can be done to stop it.... make people pay for their crimes,f**K political correctness, F**K the bleeding hearts that say its not fair that they were raised in a bad enivroment, hold people accountable, " eye for an eye" justice.maybe then people will think about their actions and the repercussions of them!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #32
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by croake View Post
    Well...... this is an intresting thread on a unspeakable tragedy!! I live 10 mins from the crime scene.. i drive past that strip mall almost everyday, one of my co-workers dated one of the fallen officers in high school, my niece plays fast pitch with the daughter of one of the fallen officers, my cousin lives in the same subdivsion as one of the fallen officers.... our commuinity is pretty tight knit.. the public servants were not on duty yet..the coffee shop they were killed in is very close to the the lakewood police station. I dont know if you guys have heard but the coffee in the greater puget sound area is pretty good!!! so it is very common to see police officers gathered into one of the local coffee houses in this area. the suspected killer had been telling people in his circle that he was going to kill a bunch of cops and to watch the news!!! he bailed out of jail on nov 23rd after the the state of arkansas had revoked his parole violation no bail order. they did not want the scumbag back.. this cleared the way for him to make bail on the charges he was being held in pierce county jail for. this tragedy proves that if somebody is hell bent on causing mayhem their is very little that can be done to stop it.... make people pay for their crimes,f**K political correctness, F**K the bleeding hearts that say its not fair that they were raised in a bad enivroment, hold people accountable, " eye for an eye" justice.maybe then people will think about their actions and the repercussions of them!!!!!!!!!!
    All of the news stories stated that the officers were on duty doing paperwork.

    Of course this sort of thing should not occur for any reason. We all hope and pray that this was not a hit to cover up something else much bigger, but we all also watch too many cop shows about all sorts of corruption, so our imaginations take off readily.

    Of course our condolences go out to the friends and family of those officers who were killed. No one deserves losing a loved one in such a brutal, unlawful and malicious way.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #33
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    Dec 2001
    Location
    Ocean Pines, MD
    Posts
    6,997
    Quote Originally Posted by behappy View Post
    Training and Experience...

    Who goes into this "trade"? Usually (not always) people with a "macho" or "little man" (like the geek above) attitude. Police training or academies are suppose to weed through this, they don't like everything that is PC today. Also some areas are having a tough time filling the needs with qualified applicants (sounds familiar?).

    True Story.. Years back my Dad (State Fire Marshall) was pulled over blue lights siren and all, while in his pickup. All the police knew him so he thought this guy just wanted to talk. This old fat guy gets out of the truck and the young cop draws down on him!

    He tried to get his ID and badge and the young police officer wouldn't hear of it. He handcuffed him on the front of the patrol car and called for backup...
    When the backup arrived the "ship hit the sand". Dad didn't push anything but the guy had a very short career.

    What I am saying is I believe once they are finished with the academy they are turned loose on the streets. In years past you rode with a seasoned officer for a long time before going solo...
    Cops should not be allowed to watch "Cops".

  8. #34
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stamas View Post
    Cops should not be allowed to watch "Cops".
    Ain't that the truth?

    If nothing else, police nationwide should be concerned with their public image. Why, when something so brutal and horrific such as four public servants being gunned down in a public place, do so many of us have mixed emotions about this uncivilized incident? We the people, should be so unified in our outrage that there would be nothing but complete support for the police over this incident. Yet we are suspicious as to why this occured. This should not be our attitude.

    It is the overall attitude of the policing industry that has put such a wedge between police and the public. The public is no longer at ease with police officers. We are more inclined to become stressed in the presence of police for fear that the police are going to find something about our behaviour that is considered wrong to them. We should be grateful when police are around, not on edge.

    It is the attitude of the police that has put this distance between the public and the police. Andy Griffith has been destroyed by our current police departments.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #35
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    Nov 2001
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    Seattle, WA
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    7,804
    Local news states that many local police agencies are now changing their methods of reports and updates for the field cops. They no longer are meeting at local places and connecting through computers. Wise decision in lieu of recent problems.

    But, ends up Seattle cops have been forced to use a 6 million dollar in car lap top computer connection to do their reports for a few years now. The field cops have been complaining about unnecessary complicaitons and failures of this new system.

    The patrol car cops say it normally takes up to 2 hours of their patrol car sitting time to get a report filed where when they drove in and wrote the report to thier local unit it would only take 1/2 to one hour at the most.

    Seems the patrol cops have been complaining about the lost field time for a long time and on one was listening. Plus it just makes them a sitting target, as we have found out.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  10. #36
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    Local news states that many local police agencies are now changing their methods of reports and updates for the field cops. They no longer are meeting at local places and connecting through computers. Wise decision in lieu of recent problems.

    But, ends up Seattle cops have been forced to use a 6 million dollar in car lap top computer connection to do their reports for a few years now. The field cops have been complaining about unnecessary complicaitons and failures of this new system.

    The patrol car cops say it normally takes up to 2 hours of their patrol car sitting time to get a report filed where when they drove in and wrote the report to thier local unit it would only take 1/2 to one hour at the most.

    Seems the patrol cops have been complaining about the lost field time for a long time and on one was listening. Plus it just makes them a sitting target, as we have found out.
    If they did their reports in the patrol car while sitting in a strategic place that has an open view around them but let's citizens also see their presence, they would be much more effective then their getting together in a bunch as they evidently have become accustomed to doing.

    I spend a lot of field time sitting in my vehicle doing on line quotes or checking for information for my contractors on line. Most times when I post here, I am sitting at a contractors parking lot, in the lot of a place I just bought a coffee or food from or from someplace where I simply feel safe to do computer work at. There is no reason that police cannot figure out how to do their computer work while still looking like they are police and not a gang hanging out in public places.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #37
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    Nov 2001
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    Seattle, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    If they did their reports in the patrol car while sitting in a strategic place that has an open view around them but let's citizens also see their presence, they would be much more effective then their getting together in a bunch as they evidently have become accustomed to doing.

    I spend a lot of field time sitting in my vehicle doing on line quotes or checking for information for my contractors on line. Most times when I post here, I am sitting at a contractors parking lot, in the lot of a place I just bought a coffee or food from or from someplace where I simply feel safe to do computer work at. There is no reason that police cannot figure out how to do their computer work while still looking like they are police and not a gang hanging out in public places.
    The officers who got shot belonged to an outlying district and met to update their computers in the morning. This is standard for a lot of outlying districts. And we have a ton of small police districts all around King County, which is the largest county.

    The computer system that took so long was only in use by the Seattle City Police department and their officers sat in their patrol cars typically near the place the incident/accident happened while they entered their reports into the main computer.

    The point is with the Seattle Police that due to the use of the computer system they have a lot more frustration and a lot less eye-to-eye time with protecting the public.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  12. #38
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    It would also help if the judicial system got it's act together and left petty crimes be less of an issue to them so they could do a better job taking care of the more obviously problematic criminals such as the one who killed those officers.

    Had I been an officer confronting the guy who killed my fellow officers, I would also have been inclined to end that man's story right there at the point of my weapon. This is not good. The justice system stinks and it is causing problems on all sides of the criminal justice system.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #39
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    Seattle, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    It would also help if the judicial system got it's act together and left petty crimes be less of an issue to them so they could do a better job taking care of the more obviously problematic criminals such as the one who killed those officers.
    Round these parts if you car is broken into the police don't respond anymore. They will mail you a report and it's up to you to send it in. They pretty much don't respond to minor crimes now as it is.

    When my shop was broken into the the thieves took over 40 years of tools, which were bolted/chained down, alarmed, etc, etc, the sheriff only responded because 5 businesses were involved. He told me I'd never see any of my tools again and he was right.

    He and the detective I talked to as I added even more tools to the list of stolen items as I became away they were gone told me that the thieves have been winning for years.

    That week I went to one of the local Grainger branches where all new glass was being installed in the front. Thieve had backed up a flat bed across the lawn that through the glass front and emptied out a lot of stuff. So all the glass was being replaced.

    A week later Graingers was installing chains in front of the building as the same thieves came back, did the same and made off with a bunch of stuff.

    Common thieves especially car thieves in this area have a field day with pratically no chance of ever getting caught.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

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