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  1. #1

    Confused York Affinity 8T Series Heat Pump Noise

    A complete York Affinity system, 2-Ton 2-Stage Heat Pump and matching air handler, were installed about a month ago. The air handler is very quiet so no complaints there, but when I go to bed there is a vibration noise from the heat pump that sometimes keeps me up. I read an excellent post by Kevin O'Neill under a related topic referring to his writing about quiet installations for a trade journal but I'm hoping to get more specific comments/suggestions this way.

    The heat pump was installed outside the window of the bathroom that's off the side of my bedroom. It was installed in the same location as my 13 year old Trane 2-Ton Heat Pump, but a little further from the house (18" vs 12"). I never had this problem with the Trane and the headboard of my bed is along an opposing inside inside wall as it's always been.

    I don't believe it's the fan, but a vibration from the compressor. If I stand in the bathroom I can hear the fan, but the sound I hear standing in a particular area of the bedroom, and while I'm in bed, is completely different... not a steady sound but a low pitch intermittent noise that speeds up and slows down along with the 2-Stage compressor. Per York's instructions the Heat Pump was replaced 2 weeks ago but the noise is still there. The installer is returning in 2 days.

    Between the installation instructions Kevin O'Neill's post I at least understand this better but I'm open to any other comments or ideas. For example, an issue that concerns me involves the liquid and vapor lines... the vapor line is insulated but it's fastened up against the bottom of the basement joists with metal J-Clamps and the uninsulated liquid line is up against the outside of the J-Clamp... a source of the vibration? Kevin also mentioned installing a 360 degree loop in the liquid line outside to stop the sound from traveling to the house. And he also mentioned installing the outside unit on a concrete pad, whereas mine is on a cement coated plastic pad. I assume I could change this next summer by using 2x4's to support the bottom of the Heat Pump, raising the unit onto blocks, removing the existing pad and pouring a concrete slab.

    Feel free to fire away.
    Last edited by 65Cobra427SC; 11-29-2009 at 01:41 PM. Reason: Minor Word Correction

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    66,792
    Your lineset install may be the cause of the vibration noise. But then you should hear it all along the line set as you walk near it.

    An over charge can also cause noise. Ask your contractor if he weighed in/removed the additional charge. Or just added/removed until he thought the pressures looked good.

    Usually, you can't hear an Affinity run when your inside, or more then a few feet away from it.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,314
    man, those units are typically very quiet. if i had to offer a guess, and its purely a guess, i might be looking at the unit being overcharged. could it be running high discharge pressure and opening the internal relief a little bit on low speed, and all the way on high? its so hard to guess without being there.

  4. #4
    At least I can run this by him when he comes over so at least it's something to check. Thanks for the guess because I never would have thought of that.

    If anyone else has any ideas... or guesses... I'd sure appreciate them.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Float'N Vally, MS
    Posts
    1,776
    Quote Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post
    Between the installation instructions Kevin O'Neill's post I at least understand this better but I'm open to any other comments or ideas. For example, an issue that concerns me involves the liquid and vapor lines... the vapor line is insulated but it's fastened up against the bottom of the basement joists with metal J-Clamps and the uninsulated liquid line is up against the outside of the J-Clamp... a source of the vibration?
    Possible and as stated "maybe overcharged".

    Quote Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post
    Kevin also mentioned installing a 360 degree loop in the liquid line outside to stop the sound from traveling to the house.
    B.S. with this unit

    Quote Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post
    And he also mentioned installing the outside unit on a concrete pad, whereas mine is on a cement coated plastic pad. I assume I could change this next summer by using 2x4's to support the bottom of the Heat Pump, raising the unit onto blocks, removing the existing pad and pouring a concrete slab.
    Feel free to fire away.
    You should have a solid, stable base. The base you have MAY be solid and stable, can't tell from here. We also put iso (rubber?) pads under the C.U.
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    north georgia
    Posts
    19
    I would check where refrigerant lines enter the house from the heat pump and make sure they are not crammed in the hole too tightly. I have seeen this cause noise problems with scroll compressors.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the responses...

    behappy... I guess C.U. means Control Unit which refers to the Heat Pump?

    Gaskeeter... I recall one of the employees having a tough time getting those lines through the hole, a possible indication the hole was too small.

    I'm making a list

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    central ohio
    Posts
    62
    the installation of this unit is what is causing the new sounds and vibrations that you are experiencing I cant beleive that someone replaced the outside unit. you will need a proper concrete pad with the unit on rubber vibration eliminators. The penetration thru the house needs to be checked for how tight it is in the wall ie touching concrete/wood. Third I would also isolate the lineset from the joists to eliminate that possible source.

    Was the old system r-22 and the new 410

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Float'N Vally, MS
    Posts
    1,776
    Quote Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post
    Thanks for the responses...

    behappy... I guess C.U. means Control Unit which refers to the Heat Pump?
    Condensing Unit (outside unit)
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  10. #10
    pfeifer... The business has been around for years and they have an A rating with the BBB. The owner and his employees have been very nice since day one, they only required a $500 deposit and haven't said a single word about the balance due. This is the first time I ever experienced a contractor replacing something before exhausting all other options... that really through me for a loop.

    I'm not sure what r-22 is but the house still had the original air handler when I bought it. I decided to replace everything this year because the heat pump was 13 years old, the air handler was 30 years old. and between the factory rebate and energy credit the time was right. Everything was replaced, including all the lines and the ductwork surrounding the new air handler. I do know the new unit uses R-410A though.

    When you say a "proper concrete pad" I'm assuming you mean a solid concrete pad. Does that necessarily mean pouring a concrete pad or am I just as well off buying a concrete pad... assuming that's an option. And how thick of a pad would I need?

    Also the unit is resting on four large grey plastic feet... at least I'm assuming they're plastic... that raise the unit approximately 6 inches off the pad. I guess the idea is to add rubber vibration eliminators under the feet. Where would I get the rubber vibration eliminators?

  11. #11
    BTW, the only reason the last message implied "I" would take care of the concrete pad and rubber vibration eliminators is so I don't end up with anything inferior. Long story short... I recently found out an acquaintance had a similar problem with his York A/C unit and when I went to look at it, the installer slid small pieces of rubber under two of the feet. No wonder they didn't help any. Thanks.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Norman Oklahoma
    Posts
    15

    Wink Noise

    In many cases the scroll compressor will and does transmit smal resonant frequencie up the line. This phemonenon is caused by a check valve in the compressor that will not stay 100% open (lazy) this will allow the scroll reed to create a pulsing which transmits to the line set. Usually the line set will be attached to a joist or a wall stud. Thenoise willthen be transmitted to the structure making in somecases the sheet rock become a speaker because if all the planets lineup correctly it will resonate. The fix is to be sure that the line is not in contact with the structure at the base and at the nail plate allowingthe transmission of the frequency to the structure. Thecharge will also have a part to play in the overall operation of the system and will effect a change in the resonate frequency over the enitre pressure range. Insome cases a second magenetic check made by parker will do the trick placed just after the compressor in the discharge line between the outlet of the compressor body and the reversing valve. This will break up the frequency and reduce resonance. But make sure the line set is not touching the structure at the base and at the nail plate.

  13. #13
    Winter meant putting this thread on hold but I still researched the issue whenever I could. The installer and I talked a few times and he knows I'll get in touch with him as soon as I decide what to do.

    Regarding the vibration noise... I hear it distinctly when I'm laying in bed, but if I sit up, it's nowhere near as noticeable.

    None of us think the lineset is a problem because we can't hear any noise along the line. Still, he checked where the line enters the house and removed the clamps along the joists but it didn't change anything.

    I asked if the noise could be from an overcharged unit or a fualty check valve and he pretty much blew me off saying those weren't a problem. He wasn't there when the unit was connected and charged but I don't want to argue so I'm not saying anything else about that.

    In all fairness, they replaced the heat pump when I mentioned it early on, yet the vibration noise continued, so at this point I decided to (1) move the unit further away from the house, and (2) update the foundation underneath the unit.

    (1) The instructions say the unit should be at least 18" from the house. I thought it was but it's at a slight angle and at one point it's only 14.5" from the siding. The house itself is another issue... wood frame with vinyl siding... not the sound barrier quality of brick or stone I suspect, so I decided to move it at least another foot away from the house.

    (2) The unit is large (33" x 42") and rests on an Ultralite Equipment Pad (31" x 43" x 2"). The Pump-Up's go to the very edge of 31" so I think the pad should be larger (36" x 48") and thicker (4") to better dampen vibration. BTW, I decided I don't want to pour a concrete pad but this will be done right because I'll be doing the work. Although they put stones under the pad, there are so few that it's like there are none and stones absorbe vibration.

    I'd like to have him disconnect the unit and move it to one side so I can dig a hole that's 6" larger than the pad in all directions (48" x 60" x 5"). The plan is to pound the dirt, add 3" of crushed gravel, pound the gravel, install the 4" pad, then fill the remaining area around the pad with crushed gravel. I'll also put rubber vibration pads under the Pump-Up's. The top of the pad will be 2" above the ground, another 5" from the Pump-Up's and an inch for the rubber vibration pads, for 8" total ground clearance during the winter.

    Not sure if this is overkill but I'd rather go in that direction than not enough. However, if anyone has any suggestions or comments I'd be interested in hearing them. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

    Dave
    Last edited by 65Cobra427SC; 04-22-2010 at 08:55 PM. Reason: Almost forgot about the rubber vibration pads.

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