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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    48

    Refrigeration/havac controll industrie is a joke!

    Im a sparky, specialised in supermarket refrigeration. I have worked on industrial PLC's and telecommunications in the the past. PLC's and telecoms have what they call an I.S. system , integrialy safe. Basically it is a surge protector/current diverter and a small fuse on their inputs. They dont want voltage to be able to blow up an entire telephone/internet exchange or stop an industrial production line that makes $xk's a minute or hour. Yet on danfoss, cpc(einstien now) or what ever, if you put voltage on an input its your fault. This is like buying a lada car, the car company telling you dont drive it in the rain or hit a speed hump. It is reasonably expected that the car will hit a speed bump or it will rain. Car manufacturers design their cars to operate in the environment they are intended for. So why is it not reasonably expected, that a danfoss card installed in an environment surrounded by voltage, will come into contact with voltage? when this happens the person who made a "mistake" is the one responsible for the stock loss or cost of replacing the card. Personally i have been lucky enough to have not done this before but have seen it done many times, and heard of it happening countless times before. I have just seen my apprentice do this to a danfoss card but could have easily been me.

    When are these manufactures going to stop blaming the installer and fix their products by puttin I.S. systems on thier controllers/cards? As long as the company who stuffed the card is admitting error and paying for it (hooray danfoss just made another sale) this will continue to happen.

    im outraged. plc's and telecoms's can do it, y not refrigeration/hvac control industry. Lets stop blaming ourself and call bull **** on these companies trying to make an extra sale.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    north shore/boston
    Posts
    16
    I think the installer should take responsability for any error he happens to make. I dont think any manufacturer bears any responsability for for misuse or faulty application of its product. If I miswire something and blow it up,its my fault and I take the blame.

    There's lots of features that in the short run make life easier for people in the industry but in the long run are counterproductive. For example diagnostic LED's, plug and play, and the system you described. These things make life easier for a guy in the industry but if things get too easy,its inevitable that salaries and benefits will drop. If not due to diy's,(granted,not a whole lot of diy going on in comm.ref.)then to a lower entry barrier into the trade which results in lower pay,IMO.

    I think the more knowledge that is required of the individual tradesman(knowing what voltage can and can't be applied to what, in this case), the better off people in this trade as a whole will be.

    Sorry,it sounds to me like you're trying to deflect the blame onto the manufacturer for not babysitting the guys in the trade enough. Sounds like someone smoking two packs a day for 20 yrs and then suing the tobacco company.They should of known better and so should a guy who's tasked with working on a piece of equiptment. Just my two cents.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Jax Fl.
    Posts
    1,943
    I am guessing that what is being described is Opto-isolation. Yes Opto does greatly enhance the longevity/reliablity [almost bulletproof] of electronics, it is quite expensive.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,314
    first, electronics as used in hvac are cost competitive. if they put protection on their i/o cards, they wouldnt sell a whole lot of them. the cheaper company would. second, thats why we check things prior to energizing a circuit. a real start up or service guy would check to be sure his wiring was right prior to blowing up an i/o board. here in the us, we use things called schematics, that identify where an analog or digital input gets tied to a control. we then wire to that set of contacts, and finally check it. My company does tons of vfd's, and i have yet to have to buy a card for one due to one of my guys blowing one up, but we double check things.

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