Need advice on new install of geo heat pump
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    14

    Need advice on new install of geo heat pump

    I have just had a bryant gt-px split system installed. 4 ton, 2 stage compressor , 1640 ft horizontal loop at an average depth of 13 feet. The tech will be here today to do the final start up. My two main concerns are they initially said they would be replacing my existing furnace blower with a ecm blower with more cfm. Now they are telling me my existing blower should work ok. They may change out the motor to a 3/4 hp to boost cfm but in my mind this wouldn't change cfm if rpm is the same using existing blower wheel. I'm confused on this! Second, they never installed ports for pressure guages on the ground loop. Wouldn't this be important for tracking pressure drop and other things? The tech said he already tested and loop was running at 15 gpm. Not sure if I should send final payment yet or have these issues taken care of.
    Any advice on these matters would be very helpful. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern Indiana
    Posts
    114
    You should have an ECM motor with a 2 stage compressor why> 2 stage needs 2 different cfm's one for Y1 and one for Y2, if not 2 stage becomes useless. All GEO closed loop systems need P/T ports, that's Geo 101. How are you going to know the pressure 6 mos from now or next year?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts
    120

    P/T Ports

    P/T ports (P= pressure, T= temperature) are VERY important for servicing the heat pump. They provide the ONLY way to determine the heat of extraction (HE) and the heat of rejection (HR). These two calculations tell the service tech more about the systems health than anything else. Insist on their install!!

    If you paid for an ECM up-grade DEMAND the up-grade!! Do not make final payment until the system is installed according to industry standards and the contract.

    Bergy

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    south cental iowa
    Posts
    18
    I agree with burgy 100%.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    238
    If they don't install what is on the quote/contract you don't pay what is on the quote/contract.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,829
    Quote Originally Posted by teeball57 View Post
    You should have an ECM motor with a 2 stage compressor why> 2 stage needs 2 different cfm's one for Y1 and one for Y2, if not 2 stage becomes useless. All GEO closed loop systems need P/T ports, that's Geo 101. How are you going to know the pressure 6 mos from now or next year?
    This is not entirely true. Yes there are 2 different CFMs needed for the 2-stage operation but an ECM or even a BFM is not necessarily what should be used. If the installing contractor doesn't know what the total static of the system is, then the DC motor option should not be used. There are plenty of PSC 2-speed motors available if the static is over .8 total. Under .8 either an ECM or BFM can be used for energy (eletrical) savings.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    14

    ecm motor and fed tax credit

    I posted a couple weeks ago about my contractor not wanting to put in a ecm blower motor in my new 4 ton split geo system. He said my 1200 cfm psc blower would work fine. I called carrier/bryant about this and they would not talk to me about anything, they said they do not offer any technical assistance at all and was told to deal with my contractor. I would have gone with another geo manufacturer if I would have known this!I had no where to go but to call another geo contractor who was so awesome in answering my questions. He said ,yes there should be a ecm motor, not so important for heating but in cooling I could freeze up the coil. My biggest concern is when he said I could not claim the 30% fed tax credit because there is not an ecm blower. It does not meet energy star and ARI standards he said. Anybody have knowledge of this. I would really appreciate any help.
    Thank you,
    John

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    East Grand Forks, MN
    Posts
    1,373
    ecm motor and fed tax credit
    If the equipment is not on the list of a qualified energystar list; it would be true that it probably will not qualify for the 30% tax credit!!

    Concerning your ecm motor: depends on the models, some MFG allow adding an ecm as an option. If it's in the bid, ask for it; it won't hurt your system at all.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Upstate, SC
    Posts
    2,919
    In the original post, you mention "they said", but nothing about what is on the proposal or contract. If you have the promises in writing, demand they fulfill the contract before paying. If we are simply going on "they said", then you just might have learned a expensive lesson. Usually, these lessons are the result of dealing with the lower bid contractors, but not always. Hopefully, you have the issues resolved to your satisfaction by now and are enjoying your new system.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    14

    ecm motor on new install

    On the contract it states a "blower upgrade" would be included. It does not specify what this would be. Before accepting the contract I called the estimator and asked what "blower upgrade" meant and he said an ecm motor/blower. I also said my decision to go with the contractor would be if they would do a 2 year parts/ labor on the loop field instead of one year and he agreed. Unfortunetely he passed away a few days later. So now the owner of the company says he doubts he will do the two year warranty on the loop and is firm about not installing the ecm motor. The best he will do is a 3/4 hp psc motor. The funny thing is I was talking to the installing tech during installation and asked about the ecm motor and he said there is no way the company is going for that, that's a thousand dollar item. As much as I paid for this system I would think it would be included for efficiency and proper operation of a 2 stage compressor. The Carrier o&m states two times , "an ecm motor must be installed on a 2 stage compressor system" and " a ecm motor is required for 2 stage operation" and if not one stage of the compressor must be locked off. I'm losing sleep! Any other advice? John

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    468
    I think you have a case in that Carrier's documentation appears to demand an ECM. You might have an avenue via the permit and inspection process - inspector should require system to be installed in accordance with manufacturer documentation - no permit signoff = no final payment.

    Another avenue might be a complaint against the contractor's license.

    Simply enlarging the PSC blower isn't going to do much for efficiency and may void eligibility for tax credit.

    Stand your ground on this.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    14

    methyl alcohol fumes from geo entering house

    any thoughts about this?
    John

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