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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    164

    Need Federal Licensing!!!! Fed Up With Hacks!

    Went on a service call yesterday for a wonderful Quietside boiler and wish I had a camera. Never seen an install this bad! Here was the list of problems I found in my 45 min. there before just telling the property owner it needs to be ripped out and re-installed.
    1) Gas piping in black pipe ran across floor, not secured either, with no drip leg or shutoff, ANYWHERE!
    2) No automatic fill valve, just a manual ball valve.
    3) Exhaust slopes downward the whole length of the run.
    4) Boiler intake stubs out of mechanical room into basement area.
    5) No expansion tank anywhere to be found.
    6) System has three zones with one common return. Their are no zone valves the pumps just turn on when that specific zone calls. The boiler is piped with the pumps pushing into the boiler then up what was originally supposed to be the return lines so their is no control of the zones.


    Then the property owner refuses to pay because I didn't fix anything! Not my fault he's too cheap! I told him to call the original installer seeing as how it was put in 9 months ago, but he lost the guys number. Not the COMPANYS number but the GUYS number! Time to call the inspector for that city.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Syracuse NY
    Posts
    19
    You are right about hakes they are everywhere in my county there is no licensing needed at all to start a heating company all you need is a truck and a tool box and a guy named bubba to help you. In the city its needed but half the guys who do work there don't have a license it's about time the trades come together Sheet Metal , HVAC , Electricians , Plumbers to start a National Licensing board but then again how much government do we need its a catch 22 .

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,295

    Exclamation Another gov't program?

    First of all, nobody can agree on what are the national standards as to what is right and wrong. Heck, this site was created to debate those very issues. The codes don't agree and are not up to date with technology or what actually works in the field. There are insufficient schools and instructors who, again don't know what to teach. There is no apprenticeship program for quality assurance. No system of post checks for quality control. The building inspectors don't know what they are looking at and do not have the time for an exhaustive inspection. So tell me, what in the world could federal licensing do that is positive? I can tell you that EVERY program the gov't has touched turned into the biggest fiasco of all time. They are synonymous with complete utter bungling, inefficient, destructive failure.

    There is only just so much you can do to stop bad things. Local licensing does very little to guarantee proper workmanship, planning, layout, and execution. My advice is to focus on keeping your own house in order then market your superiority to your clients. Those who can appreciate how professional you are will willingly pay for your services. Those who try the cheap Charlie route will still end up calling you only now it will cost more to correct the mess. Instead of cursing these messes, think of them as job security and are blessings that feed your family.

    You can take the homeowner to court and collect for the service call or you can just write it off and move on. I've been preaching here for 5 yrs to carry cameras and document everything. I've been preaching to get your business SOP in order which includes what you tell the homeowner at the time of scheduling the appt. and what they get. Some companies won't schedule until a base charge has been run through their credit card for just such cases. Know your local laws and protect yourself. Some companies are requiring a homeowner email back acceptance of the terms of service contract to support claims in small claims courts.

    I charge a base fee to come out inspect and consult on the suitability and viability of an installation. The estimate is free but you pay for my inspection and consultation. Then, if you elect to have be service it, my other fees apply but regardless I walk out the door with a check. The only time I got stiffed was by a biker on drugs who threatened to kill me and I ran for my life.

    Let's leave our fascist socialists gov't alone--they have their hands full with screwing up the country already without adding another bureaucracy to it.

    Hearthman

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    1,070
    Need Federal Licensing!!!! Fed Up With Hacks!

    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    First of all, nobody can agree on what are the national standards as to what is right and wrong.
    If they can do it for medicine, there's no reason it can't be done for HVAC!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,921
    Twilli says thats exactly what we need another license and no one to enforce existing codes. Great idea.
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  6. #6

    Confused My 2 cents

    More government intervention will not solve anything. They have too much control the way it is now you know they would raise your taxes to pay for govern the trade and these hacks would still be out there. So with that being said don’t you think that these people that hire those hacks get what they pay for and that the word of mouth will put them out of work sooner or later, just my two cents!!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    853
    Quote Originally Posted by sktn77a View Post
    Need Federal Licensing!!!! Fed Up With Hacks!



    If they can do it for medicine, there's no reason it can't be done for HVAC!
    OK, let's propose 4 years undergraduate study in science and physics. Now let's allow those with the best GPA's to enter a 2-4 year series of courses in HVAC. Now let's those that graduate go on to practice under a pro. Now they can get a license to practice HVAC!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    1,070
    Quote Originally Posted by davefr View Post
    OK, let's propose 4 years undergraduate study in science and physics. Now let's allow those with the best GPA's to enter a 2-4 year series of courses in HVAC. Now let's those that graduate go on to practice under a pro. Now they can get a license to practice HVAC!!
    Don't see why not - they charge more than physicians!!!


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,981
    Quote Originally Posted by sktn77a View Post
    Need Federal Licensing!!!! Fed Up With Hacks!



    If they can do it for medicine, there's no reason it can't be done for HVAC!
    LOL! I think you made the point for why we don't want any more government involved in our industry.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Meriden, Kansas
    Posts
    435
    I am not a fan of national licensing, if you already have local licensing how would national licensing change anything? The hacks and the tight wads will always be out there getting around any system.
    I do agree with the frustration expressed in your rant. It does seem that we spend way too much time cleaning up other peoples messes. The original installer rips the customer off and makes some quick easy money, but when we have to tell the owner that it will cost big bucks just to straighten it out they sometimes treat us like we are the thiefs!
    Anything I say here is only my opinion. Even if you understood what I said.... What I said may not even be what I meant.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,532
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckHVAC View Post
    I am not a fan of national licensing, if you already have local licensing how would national licensing change anything? The hacks and the tight wads will always be out there getting around any system.
    I do agree with the frustration expressed in your rant. It does seem that we spend way too much time cleaning up other peoples messes. The original installer rips the customer off and makes some quick easy money, but when we have to tell the owner that it will cost big bucks just to straighten it out they sometimes treat us like we are the thiefs!
    But wait. That homeowner just got his steak cooked without any "extra costs." Isn't that what homeowners want?

    Bbbbbwwwhahahahahahahahhahah!!!!!!!
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beatrice, NE
    Posts
    2,492
    I was pushing for a state licence here, created by HVAC pros, enforced by the government. It would set a varifiable standard of installation that the inspector could follow, equipment could not be purchased without a licence, it had a journyman apprentice program - no apprentice on the job without journeyman or higher, if you hacked in a job that didn't pass inspection and got caught you fixed it FREE, it had residential, light commercial, commercial, and inductrial sections that could not be crossed ie no res. work on a lht com licence etc, HOs could buy equipment for big box but would have to use the dealers licence & dealer would be responsable. testing would be about more than just sadety issues, I could go on. So here is what happened. A letter and survey got passed around at all the service schools and meetings I went to, a trainer for a local distributor passed it around at his schools, a training facility passed it around at those classes, 90% of the dealers and techs that saw the outline liked the idea and signed the responce sheet. I sent the letter and sign up sheet to all the distributors I could come up with along with a letter asking them to just put it on their counter, they didn't even have to endorse it just put it out where Techs could see it and if they wanted to send it out with sales reps would be great. I got a 100% responce back from the distribs, "We think it is a good idea but are affraid it will make out customers mad so we won't do it" I even followed up with phone calls to many of them and got the same responce. So it died.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckHVAC View Post
    I am not a fan of national licensing, if you already have local licensing how would national licensing change anything? The hacks and the tight wads will always be out there getting around any system.
    I do agree with the frustration expressed in your rant. It does seem that we spend way too much time cleaning up other peoples messes. The original installer rips the customer off and makes some quick easy money, but when we have to tell the owner that it will cost big bucks just to straighten it out they sometimes treat us like we are the thiefs!
    A small but positive step might be for the professional members on this website to be listed by location, with contact information. Then a homeowner, like me, who is looking for a truly capable technician and a quality conscious company, would have a way to make that connection.

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