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Thread: L-Gate and BCU

  1. #1
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    L-Gate and BCU

    Have a customer with Summit and BCU at one central location. They have several small outbuildings across the city which they want to monitor minor points and get alarms from. Currently no controls in these small buildings and the cost for adding BCU to each one and controllers is not really an option and way overkill. The outbuildings have internet and or intranet connections. My thought is to use an MP503 in each building connected to an L-Gate lon to bacnet ip gateway and pull them into the BCU as bacnet ip devices. Anyone have any experience with using the gateways? I realize that using I Lon 600s is also an option but the gateway has a small build in server which allows direct access outside of Summit and in dependant of the BCU if something were to happen with the system. The buildings are critical server buildings so redundancy is a big plus.

  2. #2
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    Dave- I'd look into LINX101's and setup an IP852 channel that dumps back in the COMM5 of the Trane unit. Then, you have full distributed AST and can make local LWeb projects if you lose connection to the BCU. Actually, you can make some local ones and a global one, etc... You have the ability of distributed visualization and control.

    It's true you have AST in the LGate but I don't think you need that capacity per site. ($$$)

  3. #3
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    Is the linx actually that much cheaper? The problem is that I cannot recommend anything that resembles a non Trane server device. Even recommending the gateway is stepping into questionable territory with my office. Anything non Trane is forbidden terrirtory . The problem is that individual BCU per out building is just not going to happen cost wise. There will only be one BCU the existing at their main site. My thought was the gateways could bacnet ip to this one BCU. I think you are talking about a seperate server at each site which would mean the Summit workstation at the main site would not be connected to them. My office would never go for that because it would show that the BCU and workstation are not needed. My thought was that the gateway would be transparent to the owner and all data would be from out buildings to BCU then to workstation with the build in AST in the gateways as a pack up if needed. Any idea approx cost on the two devices? The MP would talk lon to the gateway and then to BCU

  4. #4
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    I may be missing something in your application by why couldn't you use something like this and bring into BCU:

    http://www.ccontrols.com/basautomation/basremote.htm

    it is bacnet/ip, it has webpages for status and configuration, it has onboard i/o with optional expansion i/o, it is also a serial modbus gateway to add modbus expandability.
    Need I say more.
    Dealer cost for base unit is in the low hundreds I believe.

    I have not used one yet, but seems to me it should be a good fit for you.

    my

  5. #5
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    I see what you are trying to say but will never fly with my office. That option means no Trane device at all in the out buildings. The gateway would allow for future addtion of Trane controllers in the buildings if desired.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2142 View Post
    I see what you are trying to say but will never fly with my office. That option means no Trane device at all in the out buildings. The gateway would allow for future addtion of Trane controllers in the buildings if desired.
    ok, may be look at this then. Might be an option:
    http://csimn.com/CSI_pages/BBIPXL.html

    but as you can see it has limited point count, so if it will be a large expansion then stick with L-Gate, jace or fieldserver.

    good luck

  7. #7
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    That is another option I was looking at. The issue is our office considers using an I-Lon as going way outside of the box. I need something easy to set up and dependable to recommend. Have to sell the idea more to our office than the customer. Need to do it without getting my hand slapped again for thinking outside the little Trane box. I am dealing with some very narrow minded people who I think would sometimes rather loose a job then think outside our product line.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2142 View Post
    That is another option I was looking at. The issue is our office considers using an I-Lon as going way outside of the box. I need something easy to set up and dependable to recommend. Have to sell the idea more to our office than the customer. Need to do it without getting my hand slapped again for thinking outside the little Trane box. I am dealing with some very narrow minded people who I think would sometimes rather loose a job then think outside our product line.
    You lost me there, what does a BAcnet/IP gateway has got to do with an ilon?

    Any way,one other way I can think of is if the buildings have fiber running between them,you can use a fiber to LON repeater and hang your MP503 off of that.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2142 View Post
    That is another option I was looking at. The issue is our office considers using an I-Lon as going way outside of the box. I need something easy to set up and dependable to recommend. Have to sell the idea more to our office than the customer. Need to do it without getting my hand slapped again for thinking outside the little Trane box. I am dealing with some very narrow minded people who I think would sometimes rather loose a job then think outside our product line.

    An ilon is a recomended application from Trane. I would not use a 503 unless you were monitoring only and turning on nothing more than exhaust fans.

    Sounds like you are worse off than me. Doing whats right is not thinking outside the box. You could convert it up to BACnet ip but I would see which way was cheaper, LONip or converting to BACnet ip and go from there.

  10. #10
    One thought - why not use a small web interface (ilon) with whatever controllers you want and then put an external web link on the graphic of the building with the workstation. Obviousely, the events, setpoints, etc. are not linked, but you can get to everything through the summit graphics. Is it the best solution, no. But if you are asked to provide a solution while keeping cost down, it's an option. You would being using non-Trane devices.

    Just a thought.
    Anyone who says this trade is easy, aint doing it right!

    If you want to hear God laugh, tell him your plans.

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  11. #11
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    Nov 2009
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    GRouter4

    Why not take a look at the GRouter4 from Adept systems? I've used these and they are transparent to both systems. Thanks Tom

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2142 View Post
    Is the linx actually that much cheaper? The problem is that I cannot recommend anything that resembles a non Trane server device. Even recommending the gateway is stepping into questionable territory with my office. Anything non Trane is forbidden terrirtory . The problem is that individual BCU per out building is just not going to happen cost wise. There will only be one BCU the existing at their main site. My thought was the gateways could bacnet ip to this one BCU. I think you are talking about a seperate server at each site which would mean the Summit workstation at the main site would not be connected to them. My office would never go for that because it would show that the BCU and workstation are not needed. My thought was that the gateway would be transparent to the owner and all data would be from out buildings to BCU then to workstation with the build in AST in the gateways as a pack up if needed. Any idea approx cost on the two devices? The MP would talk lon to the gateway and then to BCU
    A LINX 101 is the following:
    LON Device
    OPC Server
    LIP Router
    AST Functions w/email

    Use the router part, and use the schedules strictly via LON. I don't see why you couldn't use a LWEB GUI page for the LINX. Or even just use the included HTML pages. LWeb is free and you can splash trane logo on it.

    I guess you cannot help that Trane is unwilling to provide a lower cost better solution to their customer. Then maybe let them live with the consequences. Either they can subsidize their hardware or provide a good solution for the circumstances.

    Of course if you don't need the local control you can go with straight LIP's and set them us as smart. That way the COMM5 DB won't even know where they are or care that the channel is being passed through the Internet.

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