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  1. #1
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    Nov 2007
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    Simultaneous Web Users in Ax

    I am trying to match a spec that requires a web based front end with an unlimited number of simultaneous web users. Does anyone know how many web users can be signed on to the web UI interface of a Honeywell Webs jace 600 at one time? If unlimited, how many are realistic before the jace becomes very slow?

  2. #2
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    Nov 2007
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    Sacramento, CA
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    It is amazing who writes these specifications.

    I would try posting this on niagara-central for an answer from Tridium or even give them a call.

  3. #3
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    Simultaneous Web Users in Ax

    I know. The spec is ridiculous. I posted the question on the Niagara Central and they replied that there is no limitation to simultaneous web users but the memory of the jace as well as how much programming it contains will limit how well the performance will be if many people were logged on at one time. That has been what I have found with all manufacturers that are advertising unlimited simultaneous users. Its really a ploy because all have the disclaimer that the power of the pc running the server software will determine how many people can use the system at once. It meets the spec just the same.

  4. #4
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    Nov 2007
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    Sacramento, CA
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    Speed of connection vs Computer Speed

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Trend View Post
    I know. The spec is ridiculous. I posted the question on the Niagara Central and they replied that there is no limitation to simultaneous web users but the memory of the jace as well as how much programming it contains will limit how well the performance will be if many people were logged on at one time. That has been what I have found with all manufacturers that are advertising unlimited simultaneous users. Its really a ploy because all have the disclaimer that the power of the pc running the server software will determine how many people can use the system at once. It meets the spec just the same.
    "Believe it or Not"
    The power of the computer accessing the graphics plays a huge deal in the speed.

    I have noticed a big difference accessing the same site from 2 different computers.

    Here is an example of 2 very different computers I used to access the same site simultaneously:
    I accessed the same site with both computers, and typed in the login for both.
    Then hit the "OK" at the same time for both.

    Computer 1:
    Laptop running Windows XP with 4gb of RAM.
    Access the Mainpage after login took 60 seconds

    Computer 2:
    Desktop running 64bit Windows 7 with 8gb of RAM.
    Access the Mainpage after login took 4 seconds

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia
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    1,596
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBladeJN View Post
    "Believe it or Not"
    The power of the computer accessing the graphics plays a huge deal in the speed.

    I have noticed a big difference accessing the same site from 2 different computers.

    Here is an example of 2 very different computers I used to access the same site simultaneously:
    I accessed the same site with both computers, and typed in the login for both.
    Then hit the "OK" at the same time for both.

    Computer 1:
    Laptop running Windows XP with 4gb of RAM.
    Access the Mainpage after login took 60 seconds

    Computer 2:
    Desktop running 64bit Windows 7 with 8gb of RAM.
    Access the Mainpage after login took 4 seconds
    If you are accessing a Tridium Jace system running Java this time will vary greatly based on the Java modules already cached on the PC. 60 secs is a long time, I can access regularly used sites with XP/2Mb RAM machine in less than 10 secs often less than 5 secs.


    Kevin
    "Profit is not the legitimate purpose of business. The legitimate purpose of business is to provide a product or service that people need and do it so well that it's profitable."

    James Rouse

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Near Philly
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    511
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Trend View Post
    I am trying to match a spec that requires a web based front end with an unlimited number of simultaneous web users. Does anyone know how many web users can be signed on to the web UI interface of a Honeywell Webs jace 600 at one time? If unlimited, how many are realistic before the jace becomes very slow?
    I don't know if I was told this or I read this, but defiantly didn't make it up. Seven web users at once.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    1,453
    Quote Originally Posted by mechdorn View Post
    I don't know if I was told this or I read this, but defiantly didn't make it up. Seven web users at once.
    Stupid specification...the consulting engineer probably stripped that "unlimited browser connections" line form some company's product blurb.
    How engineering became quite so cut-and-paste is beyond me.
    Mind you, only a month ago I saw a spec that mandated a Celeron for the PC ... go figure.

    I have a particular site where there is a J6 that has 5x RS485 bus, 232 Flex driver and 14x Modbus TCP connections...there is heaps of logging going on across about 400-500 data points as well. This JACE serves 6x permanent data centre 'wonder-wall' web-browser screens at any given time and handles being accessed by multiple concurrent workbench instances without any discernible problem or delay....and the J6 is basically piddly little PC104 board... NXS would probably do a squillion times

    geez I dunno... maybe run AX on a serious server and try to max it out... good luck.

    here's my local laptop running a browser with 15-ish concurrent tabs running a live trend ...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Bartlesville, Ok
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    113
    I wouldn't call the spec totally ridiculous, because there are products out there that limit the number browser connections at one time. KMC Controls Total Control, for one, requires that you buy a seat for every browser connection you wish to have.

  9. #9
    I do not think there is an issue with the specification thereof. I think the greater issue is that the individual wants to use a product that does not meet the specification in the manner of installation the individual wants to use it.

    And, this may be the design intent of the specifier they do not particularly care for certain product in a specific implementation and this is in fact why this line is in their specification.

    I think I can understand why the specification agent makes this statement. Further, I understand why certain individuals make the complaint and why its hard for them to understand why their particular product they are extremely fond of using in a certain manner doesn't make the specifiers qualifications.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    192
    I agree. I see this "unlimited" # of users in specs a lot. It is nebulous and prone to misinterpretation. A lot of times it's meant to prevent buying a system with a restricted # of users. So they just make it "unlimited".

    Specifying the # of supported simultaneous users is difficult for customers and for installers and the controller manufacturers. Customers cannot expect that adding more and more simultaneous user connections to a web server won't at some point cause some performance degradation. But I realize its difficult for customers to predict how many users would want to log it at any given time. Its more an art than a science.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    1,453
    Quote Originally Posted by lowdrive View Post
    I wouldn't call the spec totally ridiculous, because there are products out there that limit the number browser connections at one time. KMC Controls Total Control, for one, requires that you buy a seat for every browser connection you wish to have.

    ...the web server platform will be a Quantum Computer and software must support at least 'warp nine' when not under normal impulse drive ...

    gee I dunno, how about something like ....the web server shall support a reasonable number of concurrent users and shall not be limited or licensed on a 'per seat' basis.
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  12. #12
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    Jan 2008
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    Near Philly
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    How engineering became quite so cut-and-paste is beyond me.

    It's literary crazy, I received a specification maybe 80-100 pages, the last 30-40 pages are from a totally different project. I kind of get it, I copy paste graphics and points, sometimes I get caught by the same bug.

  13. #13
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Clayton, NC
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    42

    Simultaneous web users

    Quote Originally Posted by lowdrive View Post
    I wouldn't call the spec totally ridiculous, because there are products out there that limit the number browser connections at one time. KMC Controls Total Control, for one, requires that you buy a seat for every browser connection you wish to have.
    Funny you should mention KMC. KMC was named specifically as the reason that this spec was added. Also I know that Trends web based front end is sold with the ability for three simultaneous web users. More can be purchased up to 25 but it's not cheap. Delta controls advertises unlimited web users by default. Reliable has 50 with the ability to purchase more.

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