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  1. #1
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    Computrols' JCI Interface

    What is this all about? Have they reverse engineered the N2 protocol?

    http://www.computrols.com/products/jci-interfacing

  2. #2
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    looks like a lawsuit to me - unless they somehow licensed the N2 protocol from JCI. They opened it up for 3rd parties to make slave N2 devices but the license does not include the ability to make supervisory level controllers.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by justjohnson View Post
    looks like a lawsuit to me - unless they somehow licensed the N2 protocol from JCI. They opened it up for 3rd parties to make slave N2 devices but the license does not include the ability to make supervisory level controllers.
    Good day,

    No true... unless JCI changed the license agreement. The license agreement that I have places no restrictions on the use of the N2 protocol... other than the information must be not made public, etc.

    Now what is possibly a legal issue is the VMA and DX protocol usage. Although the VMA and DX devices exist on the N2 bus they do not communicate via the N2 protocol and they have their own protocols. So, unless this firm specifically requested and was granted a access/license to these protocols they could be sued... In fact this happened to very well known company... and then sometime later they were granted a license (with some $$$ changing hands ofcourse).

    Cheers,

    Sam

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigo View Post
    What is this all about? Have they reverse engineered the N2 protocol?

    http://www.computrols.com/products/jci-interfacing
    Good day Amigo,

    No need to reverse engineer...The N2 open protocol can be requested from JCI... The DX and VMA protocols on the other hand are much less likely to be released to anyone outside of JCI.

    Cheers,

    Sam

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by s2sam View Post
    Good day Amigo,

    No need to reverse engineer...The N2 open protocol can be requested from JCI... The DX and VMA protocols on the other hand are much less likely to be released to anyone outside of JCI.

    Cheers,

    Sam
    Hello Sam,
    yes, I have seen the N2 open protocol document, what was interesting about these guys' interface is their claim that DX and VMA is covered in their interface.
    Now I don't know this for sure, but my understanding was very very few, or if any 3rd party have ever got a legal copy of DX or VMA's protocol details from JCI. JCI keeps those babies under lock and key.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigo View Post
    Hello Sam,
    yes, I have seen the N2 open protocol document, what was interesting about these guys' interface is their claim that DX and VMA is covered in their interface.
    Now I don't know this for sure, but my understanding was very very few, or if any 3rd party have ever got a legal copy of DX or VMA's protocol details from JCI. JCI keeps those babies under lock and key.
    Good day Amigo,

    I, too, am curious about their DX and VMA support also well. Further, there are a lot of nuances in the N2 portion as well if one is planning on supporting of JCI specific devices... Not everything is documented within the N2 Open protocol that JCI N2 devices use/expect.

    As for the DX and VMA protcols... indeed very few outside companies have these... We are one of the fortunate few that do... thankfully we got them from JCI many years ago (worked with JCI on project(s) that required us to have them) before Corporate put a stop to it. My guess is that Corporate does not want to have any additional competition to their devices.

    Cheers,

    Sam

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by s2sam View Post
    Good day Amigo,

    I, too, am curious about their DX and VMA support also well. Further, there are a lot of nuances in the N2 portion as well if one is planning on supporting of JCI specific devices... Not everything is documented within the N2 Open protocol that JCI N2 devices use/expect.

    As for the DX and VMA protcols... indeed very few outside companies have these... We are one of the fortunate few that do... thankfully we got them from JCI many years ago (worked with JCI on project(s) that required us to have them) before Corporate put a stop to it. My guess is that Corporate does not want to have any additional competition to their devices.

    Cheers,

    Sam
    Hello Sam,
    yes, and that is why I hope you release your BACnet/Modbus to N2 product(s) soon.
    don't keep us waiting, ok

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigo View Post
    Hello Sam,
    yes, and that is why I hope you release your BACnet/Modbus to N2 product(s) soon.
    don't keep us waiting, ok
    Good day Amigo,

    I am trying! ... I just need to figure out how to get more hours in the day/week so we can catch up on our work/project load... Here's a hint- coffee, tea, RedBull, etc does not work!

    That being said, I am working on a three new hardware architectures that will accelerate the roll-out of new products... stay tuned

    Cheers,

    Sam

  9. #9
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    It is my understanding the principles of Computrols were the designers of JCI N2 protocol. I know of one government facility in the New York area that has N2 up on a CBAS Front End.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdocsr05 View Post
    It is my understanding the principles of Computrols were the designers of JCI N2 protocol.
    Is this reliable, 1st hand information?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdocsr05 View Post
    It is my understanding the principles of Computrols were the designers of JCI N2 protocol. I know of one government facility in the New York area that has N2 up on a CBAS Front End.
    If this is the case, then their connection(s) within JCI may have given them access to the DX and VMA protocols? As has been the case since the Roman times it is not what you know, but who you know!

    As for the N2 protocol... I have no idea as to its exact origins/design, but I can tell you that it is based on the Optomux-22 protocol (the N2 command and response formats anyway)

    Cheers,

    Sam

  12. #12
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    Lets put it this way. I have several facilities running CBAS and deal with Computrols weekly

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdocsr05 View Post
    Lets put it this way. I have several facilities running CBAS and deal with Computrols weekly
    Sounds good, thanks for confirming the information as credible.

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