Originally posted by a\c don
Actually, believe it or not I am a total team player. Just get a little defensive when I see a 1st time poster come aboard in what seems to be attack mode.
Originally posted by owner also
Originally posted by a\c don
Maybe I should come to work for you Sam. At least I stated what state I live in.
Originally posted by owner also
I see your profile has plenty of information about yourself also.
That's good to talk bad about Walmart and I am sure you have made more money than ole Sam Walton made. Read his book before you discount it, you do have to admit he knew how to make money and that is what you are in this business for. You were right I did work for someone else for more than 20 years and I own my own company now for over 15 years. I do know what it takes to operate a company and the after hours overtime is never used to figure overhead. A $10,000.00 a year bonus is less than the $5.00 an hour price increase you just made for the price of gas going up $0.20. How much was your orporate onus last year to get the books to look like you were not making any money? Before you complain about your employees drive by their homes and see what they live in. Then look at what you are living in. Easy to sit and say it cost so much overhead to run a business and yes it does cost plenty, but that is no reason to not be generous with the ones making that profit. If you are not making at least $50,000.00 per employee you should check into management classes. I bet you are the one I hear about counting wire nuts on the vans and complaining about how many they have.
Here is the marker put your X where you want it.
If I'm wrong, and if you are in fact a HVAC contractor, and if you truly pay your people the way you seem to proclaim to, if you truly place your employees above yourself,let me know who you are. I'd love to work for you.
North Carolina and I have plenty of candidates here without your attitude. Too cynical for me, it would not matter what was said or done you would have to complain about it. You are the typical tech you are bad mouthing.
You would find this to be a fun and informative place to be if you would drop your ATTITUDE. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
Apology accepted and an apology extended from myself. I just get tired of contractors bad mouthing their help. And yes I am a contractor. Every contractor meeting I go to, they all just sit and bad mouth their help. After they bad mouth me for hiring them away from them.
You are a team player and I am sure you know some you work with that are not team players, correct? The ones you have to follow on their call backs. Why are they kept?
Because good help is impossible to find is always the answer. So your employer puts up with there less than adequate workmanship or attitude. Good help is offered a wage to match what they are already making so what is there to make them want to jump ship? NOTHING! So they stay where they are, they know the devil they are dancing with. There has to be an incentive to make them want to dance with an unknown devil and money is what it takes. The overhead to keep a tech in the field for me averages about 2.5 of their wages. With less techs that would go up.
Thats cool owner also. Just the way you came onto this particular post sounded suspect, at least to me. You've got the young guys wanting more and the struggling owners trying to hold on to what they have.
Most of the owners here are small business owners and dont have the resources that you seem to have. If you're treating your people that well I salute you. You're a rare and welcome breed to this community.
We've been doing so much,for so long,with so little, that now we can do almost anything, with nothing at all.
Now ... where were we???
Oh Yea, .... someone asked about riding with a helper in this trade.
Here is the way I see it;
If I had more than two service calls a day int he winter to perform, I could use that time to groom a helper. Provided they demonstrated that they wanted to learn.
Profit wise, in the short run, it is nearly impossible to justify having a second along on a job.
And, unfortunately, many of us must tow the mark and write a certain amount of paper each day in order keep the shop doors open. So ... we dont hire helpers to ride with journeymen. (anymore).
However, if I found such a young person, and they were not a high maintenance person, I would go out of my way to bring them along each day and show them the ropes.
For me, my early employers, save for one, were too busy to see the future and left me alone in the truck to fend for myself.
Oh sure, I learned what to do and what not to do. But I learn these things while riding with a mentor AFTER I left my first couple of employers and went out on my own.
I highly recomend what Dow is doing in hiring young people who prove themsleves. Giving them perks and then watching to see how they respond.
Money can buy class time and tools and even a nice resume service. But money cannot purchase time with me or time with Dow. Only committment and demonstrating respect for the trade and for others around them will work here.
To me, I consider it selfish to know what I know of this trade and take it to the grave without first imparting some if not all to another human being.
There are some guys here who have forgotten more than I know now or maybe even ever learned. And maybe they tried and succeeded at imparting some of their knowledge to others over the course of their carreer lifetime. Maybe they were good at mentoring and maybe they were lousy at it.
But what I know, I can impart. I have the pateince and the time and personality to do so.
I can feed off another person's enthusiasm to learn and grasp new things. I get excited to see how their face lights up when they finally realize how a certain system works. Or when they make their first this or their first that function after it was broken and a tough one to troubleshoot.
There is a definate need for mentors in this trade.
And we as an industry, will continue to suffer as long as there is not an ongoing mentor program within our industry.
And money alone cannot buy a mentor.
It takes a lifetime to groom a mentor. Even though it takes but two years to run a young person thru a trade school and spit them out at us, us ... the one's who have to gleen work and performance out of these people.
Considering what we are responsible for and how mission critical this industry is to the whole world, I say it's about time we began instituting a mentor program nationwide, which would facilitate our need for current as well as future technicians.
And money cant buy that. It takes people. And those people must have committment and determination.
And to address the question of the young man who started this thread in the begining; lot of luck buddy, you are swimming upstream if you want a ride along as a helper.
Unless, that is, you happen to live near me.
However, just so this is not a total loss to you, might I sugest you do a search and read some of thepsts made by myself or Dowadudda about employees. You will find all sorts of great tips by the majority of memebers on this forum about what is expected of an employee and some of the benefits of being with some of the better employers. Of which Dow is one of the best.
R12 after that post I really wish i stayed near you its not the money I tell every employer I will work for minimum wage aslong as I learn. I am being realistic I know I would not be a productive service technician coming right out of tech school so im not looking for big bucks just a foot in the door. R12 you are a rare breed if you have that much patience when teaching because I do not I cannot sit and watch someone make mistake after mistake, when I know how to do it I would jump in and take over.
Anyone from the Phoenix area looking to train. I work full-time from 2:30-11:00 pm, so am available in the a.m. Want to learn, have mechanical and electrical background experience, am an aircraft mechanic for America West Airlines, speciliazed in avionics. Seriously considering a career, not job, change. So if anyone is interested, will work for cheap possibly free if the trainer is serious and will teach. Thank you.
Originally posted by SeattlePioneer
I have a cousin who is an experienced plumber. He's 55 years old and nearly died of a heart problem a year or so ago. He'll have a helper when he returns to work to assist him in getting work done.
I'd consider doing the same thing when I am even more broken down than I am now.
Having a chance to work one on one with an experienced tradesman sounds like extremely valuable experience if you have someone who treats you decently and wants to help you learn.
The service tech's where I work don't have helpers. If they need to do something heavy, they just team up, when the heavy stuff is done, they split up.
Installers almost always have a helper, but that's almost a requirement.
I'm still green in the areas I do know, but I love to teach what I do know... finding someone who wants to learn is every bit as hard as these guys make it seem. But the only think harder is learning more. I've offered many times to ride along for free with one or 2 of the tech's who are really good, just so I could learn some basics. I keep getting the door slammed on me, and sent out to "go make them more money".
It's frustrating, and I wish ya lots of luck!
In my area Service tech's dont have Helpers. Even the Installers rarely have helpers with them.
In our company servicemen don't usually have helpers. However we have recently acquired two apprentices so if the apprentices aren't doing clean and checks they ride w/ us. Kind of wierd after riding alone. I've got to clean out my passenger seat. Most of the time in service they're relatively useless, except you can make them carry the tools.
I'm ready to move to North Carolina!
LOL......the guy does have a point.
Originally posted by Ammonianite
I'm ready to move to North Carolina!
His theory about after hours calls being gravy money is correct. All of your overhead should be covered by what you charge during normal business hours.
I pay my guys a ton of $$ to be on call, I had one service tech make $1,093.00 extra for himself in one weekend being on call!
One of the sweetest and most valuable things in our industry is a team of two guys that get along well. It doesn't matter if they are your two top servicemen. Let them ride together if that is what they want to do. Splitting up a good team is foolish leadership.
"And remember my sentimental friend......that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others" - Wizard of Oz.