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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtoZhvac View Post
    Hi


    Something that really bothers me about the Sporlan Head Master charging data is nothing is considered for the evaporator or the line set. Am I wrong that that does not matter when making a proper charge?
    Yes. I cracked a few jokes, but now I get to be a jerk.

    Did you read the Sporlan instructions? Really?

    If so, you would know that the first step is to charge the system to a clear sightglass.

    This automatically accounts for linesets and evap and all that.

    If you're going to learn something, make it the right thing.

  2. #54
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtoZhvac View Post
    Hi

    Please tell me how you calculate how much refrigerant to put into the condenser and the receiver.

    Something that really bothers me about the Sporlan Head Master charging data is nothing is considered for the evaporator or the line set. Am I wrong that that does not matter when making a proper charge?

    Thanks

    ps please some of you guys lay off of turning this thread into a joke fest!
    I am sincerley trying to learn something important here and I honestly can not tell when some of you are contributing something useful or joking about something.



    Thanks
    Something bothers me about this reply.

    The sporlan method allows you to calculate the amount of refrigerant required to flood the condenser at low ambient conditions.

    The receiver does not enter into these calculations except that it must be large enough to hold that excess when it isn't needed.

    I don't understand how low ambient is going to affect the amount of refrigerant held in the evap or the lineset, nor do I see how the semi-scientific WAG method offered compensates for them anyway.

    If you want more calculations, look up the Heatcraft installation manual. It has all the numbers to calculate the entrained charge very, very closely. If you are having trouble with the math, bring the numbers here and we will help you with it.

    We DO joke and fool around, but there is more than a little knowledge and experience hanging around here.

  3. #55
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    Oct 2007
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    ATLANTA
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Yes. I cracked a few jokes, but now I get to be a jerk.

    Did you read the Sporlan instructions? Really?

    If so, you would know that the first step is to charge the system to a clear sightglass.

    This automatically accounts for linesets and evap and all that.

    If you're going to learn something, make it the right thing.


    jpsmith1cm,

    Yes indeed I "REALLY" read the Sporlan instructions. You seem to have missed the fact that my post that you quoted was my reply to a post that was made by hvacr man who says he calculates how much the cond coil will hold AND the receiver. See the quote below please.

    posted by hvacr man :
    "I dont do a lot of refrigeration but on a smaller walk in I will calculate how much liquid the cond coil will hold and then the receiver. I add 80% of what the receiver will hold and what the cond coil will hold. I have done this 3 times and havent had a problem with being short in the winter or overcharged in the summer."

    So yes jpsmith1cm I certainly wanted to know what procedure that "hvacr man" uses to calculate for the cond coil and the receiver!
    As far as I know it could be as good or even better method than the Sporlan instructions.

    Also please forgive me for assuming that if the condenser tubing and bends can be calculated for charging purposes that similar measurements and calculations might also apply as well to the evaporator and the lineset.

    After all I have seen systems with NO sight glass on them.

    Im not going to take the route of being a jerk,sarcastic,or condescending on this forum to another member and I would encourage everyone to do the same.

    I continue to believe that this thread will be helpful not only to me but potentially to others as well.

    Best Regards
    Last edited by AtoZhvac; 10-20-2009 at 06:02 PM.

  4. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    86
    atozhvac
    I am not sure that the way I have done it is correct, but it netted the results I needed. I really expected some yeahs or neys to my method. I do know that this cant be used for all systems. I have looked for the info on the receivers on the net but cant find it. I do have a hard copy so all I can do is give you an example, but you should be able to locate it on the net or call a refrigeration supply house. So anyway I calculate the cond tubes and u bends just like the sporlan instructions then I measure the reciever and refer to the chart that I only have a hard copy of. Example from the chart: A 6inch dia. x 12long vertical reciever will hold 10lbs of r-22 @ 90 degrees and 90%full. We get hotter here than that some times so I figure a little less. I would then add that to the number I came up with on the sporlan chart for the cond volume and put that total into the system. I am NOT saying that this is the way to do it, but 2 of the 3 or 4 times I have done this I cross checked with the full formula from sporlan and they came out very very close.
    Bring back rotary phones so we dont have to press 1 to proceed in ENGLISH!!!!

  5. #57
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    Oct 2007
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    ATLANTA
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacr man View Post
    atozhvac
    I am not sure that the way I have done it is correct, but it netted the results I needed. I really expected some yeahs or neys to my method. I do know that this cant be used for all systems. I have looked for the info on the receivers on the net but cant find it. I do have a hard copy so all I can do is give you an example, but you should be able to locate it on the net or call a refrigeration supply house. So anyway I calculate the cond tubes and u bends just like the sporlan instructions then I measure the reciever and refer to the chart that I only have a hard copy of. Example from the chart: A 6inch dia. x 12long vertical reciever will hold 10lbs of r-22 @ 90 degrees and 90%full. We get hotter here than that some times so I figure a little less. I would then add that to the number I came up with on the sporlan chart for the cond volume and put that total into the system. I am NOT saying that this is the way to do it, but 2 of the 3 or 4 times I have done this I cross checked with the full formula from sporlan and they came out very very close.

    Hi

    Thanks for the reply!
    Does your chart have an address or info on it that could lead me to where to get one? Could you email a copy of it to me? if so please email to <Please put your email address in your profile, not in post, thank you>


    Thanks
    Last edited by beenthere; 10-20-2009 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Removed email address

  6. #58
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtoZhvac View Post
    jpsmith1cm,

    Yes indeed I "REALLY" read the Sporlan instructions. You seem to have missed the fact that my post that you quoted was my reply to a post that was made by hvacr man who says he calculates how much the cond coil will hold AND the receiver. See the quote below please.

    posted by hvacr man :
    "I dont do a lot of refrigeration but on a smaller walk in I will calculate how much liquid the cond coil will hold and then the receiver. I add 80% of what the receiver will hold and what the cond coil will hold. I have done this 3 times and havent had a problem with being short in the winter or overcharged in the summer."

    So yes jpsmith1cm I certainly wanted to know what procedure that "hvacr man" uses to calculate for the cond coil and the receiver! As far as I know it could be as good or even better method than the Sporlan instructions
    .

    Also please forgive me for assuming that if the condenser tubing and bends can be calculated for charging purposes that similar measurements and calculations might also apply as well to the evaporator and the lineset.

    After all I have seen systems with NO sight glass on them.

    Im not going to take the route of being a jerk,sarcastic,or condescending on this forum to another member and I would encourage everyone to do the same.

    I continue to believe that this thread will be helpful not only to me but potentially to others as well.

    Best Regards
    Point #1. Refrigeration is 95% of what I do. I work on stuff that hold 7 ounces of gas and I work on stuff that holds 1700# of gas and everything in between. I've done it wrong and I've done it right. I have learned the hard way what works and what doesn't.

    Point #2. Somehow I seriously doubt this.

    Point #3. Systems without sightglasses are typically critically charged systems with a weighed in charge and not pertinent to this discussion.


    I have tried to help you. You have refused to accept the advice that has been given you. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. You can accept the advice of someone who admits to not doing a lot of refrigeration work, or you can take the advice of the people who design the equipment that you are working on.

    Your call.

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtoZhvac View Post
    Hi

    Thanks for the reply!
    Does your chart have an address or info on it that could lead me to where to get one? Could you email a copy of it to me? if so please email to

    Thanks
    Probably the same chart I offered you a while ago.

    Last edited by beenthere; 10-20-2009 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Removed email address

  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtoZhvac View Post
    Hi

    Thanks for the reply!
    Does your chart have an address or info on it that could lead me to where to get one? Could you email a copy of it to me? if so please email to

    Thanks
    please remove your E- mail addy
    Last edited by crackertech; 10-20-2009 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Removed email address
    I love the smell of phosgene first thing in the morning:

    To apply for professional membership click here


    Educational forums are open.

    If you would like to submit a link or an article or other related info to the EF. click here

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Point #1. Refrigeration is 95% of what I do. I work on stuff that hold 7 ounces of gas and I work on stuff that holds 1700# of gas and everything in between. I've done it wrong and I've done it right. I have learned the hard way what works and what doesn't.

    Point #2. Somehow I seriously doubt this.

    Point #3. Systems without sightglasses are typically critically charged systems with a weighed in charge and not pertinent to this discussion.


    I have tried to help you. You have refused to accept the advice that has been given you. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. You can accept the advice of someone who admits to not doing a lot of refrigeration work, or you can take the advice of the people who design the equipment that you are working on.

    Your call.
    On a less serious side jpsmith, you would be surprised just how many lines in this post could be juxtoposed with the lines in the song by Frank Sinatra "I did it my way!" "I've done it right, I've done it wrong, but in the end, in the end, I did it my way". I hope you take that as funny.

  10. #62
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  11. #63
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    Nov 2006
    Location
    Iowa
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    Atoz
    I dont have a working scanner so I cant e mail it. All it says on it is SUVA REFRIGERANTS, The correct way to do it is with sporlans method, I have probably just got lucky a few times. I wouldnt have posted but I was hoping to hear someone say "I do it that way also " or You shouldnt do it that way because...." I had the same question as you years ago and "icemeister" answered it with the sporlan method. It works. This is a great place to learn, take advantage of it. I would use it more but I consistantly have problems getting on it. Good Luck!!!!!
    Bring back rotary phones so we dont have to press 1 to proceed in ENGLISH!!!!

  12. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Probably the same chart I offered you a while ago.


    jpsmith1cm,

    Here you go again like a loose canon.

    If you have read the posts you would see that what is in discussion here is hvacr man has a calculation tool for the receiver which I am trying to learn more about.

    Best regards
    Last edited by AtoZhvac; 10-21-2009 at 08:20 AM.

  13. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Point #1. Refrigeration is 95% of what I do. I work on stuff that hold 7 ounces of gas and I work on stuff that holds 1700# of gas and everything in between. I've done it wrong and I've done it right. I have learned the hard way what works and what doesn't.

    Point #2. Somehow I seriously doubt this.

    Point #3. Systems without sightglasses are typically critically charged systems with a weighed in charge and not pertinent to this discussion.


    I have tried to help you. You have refused to accept the advice that has been given you. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. You can accept the advice of someone who admits to not doing a lot of refrigeration work, or you can take the advice of the people who design the equipment that you are working on.

    Your call.

    jpsmith1cm,

    I have not refused help from YOU or anyone. You have absolutely nothing to back up your statement with.I am trying to follow through and investigate ALL of the help offered by ALL posters.

    You really need to get off of your high horse jpsmith1cm not everyone is a smart as you so that does not make it O.K for you to be a jerk as you proclaimed yourself to be in a recent reply to me. Or to be a bully that what you say is superior to someone who does not do as much refrigeration work as you do.
    Other members will stop posting when they get pounced on or bullied around and people wanting to learn could stop coming here as well.

    You spent more time trying to scoff at me as being stupid other than taking time to read the posts to see that I was in process of getting new information which had been mentioned by another member on how to calculate charge for both the cond and the receiver.

    I am being fair to try and give everyones advice a fair chance.


    That my friend is why im interested in hearing and considering input from everyone.

    Best regards
    Last edited by AtoZhvac; 10-21-2009 at 07:57 AM.

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