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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4

    Carrier v Lennox - Help to sift through the sales person's spin ?

    Hi All,

    I'm in the market for a new furnace and heat pump to replace a 35 year old furnace. I'm in Vancouver BC and have two quotes, planning to get one more before deciding on which way to go. My house is 2900 sqft on two levels and I'm in the process of changing out the single pane windows for double pane energy efficient glass and improving the insulation.

    The first quote was for a Lennox G71 with an XP19 heat pump.

    The second quote was for a Carrier 58MVC Infinity ICS furnace with an Infinity 19 heat pump.

    Both quotes are for 3 ton heat pumps. The guy giving me the second quote asked if I had other quotes, I mentioned that I had a Lennox quote but did not tell him the pricing.

    He proceeded to tell me the following, which I suspect may be sales spin and would appreciate any advice on:

    - Carrier heat pumps are much better than Lennox as they have some patented and proprietary technology that makes them more efficient. For example they will operate down to -7 degrees Celsius while the Lennox is only good down to +4 degrees Celsius.
    - The ratings on the Carrier heat pumps are more conservative than the Lennox, if I go with Lennox, I should get a 3.5-4 ton unit to be equivalent to the 3 ton Carrier.
    - The variable capacity gas metering on the G71 is inefficient as it will ratchet up by 5% every 5 minutes, meaning that it will take an hour to get to the optimum temperature.
    - The Carrier furnace is quieter than the Lennox, although Lennox claim the opposite.

    The Carrier sales person also mentioned that the only air filter system that is any good is the Trane Clean Effects. I had the Lennox guy quote on the Pure Air system, both are about the same price.

    Would appreciate any advice on the truth or otherwise of these claims. I realize this is probably a polarizing topic.

    Thank you !

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    1,051
    I would never trust a anyone that puts down another company or there equipment. I am a Lennox dealer and the things you are being told are just not true. Both systems would be good if installed properly.

    Go with the company that will give you the best installation. Thats the most important thing. Did either run a manual J for sizing the equipment?
    Its a good Life!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    258
    Quote Originally Posted by slowreno View Post
    Hi All,

    I'm in the market for a new furnace and heat pump to replace a 35 year old furnace. I'm in Vancouver BC and have two quotes, planning to get one more before deciding on which way to go. My house is 2900 sqft on two levels and I'm in the process of changing out the single pane windows for double pane energy efficient glass and improving the insulation.

    The first quote was for a Lennox G71 with an XP19 heat pump.

    The second quote was for a Carrier 58MVC Infinity ICS furnace with an Infinity 19 heat pump.

    Both quotes are for 3 ton heat pumps. The guy giving me the second quote asked if I had other quotes, I mentioned that I had a Lennox quote but did not tell him the pricing.

    He proceeded to tell me the following, which I suspect may be sales spin and would appreciate any advice on:

    - Carrier heat pumps are much better than Lennox as they have some patented and proprietary technology that makes them more efficient. For example they will operate down to -7 degrees Celsius while the Lennox is only good down to +4 degrees Celsius.
    - The ratings on the Carrier heat pumps are more conservative than the Lennox, if I go with Lennox, I should get a 3.5-4 ton unit to be equivalent to the 3 ton Carrier.
    - The variable capacity gas metering on the G71 is inefficient as it will ratchet up by 5% every 5 minutes, meaning that it will take an hour to get to the optimum temperature.
    - The Carrier furnace is quieter than the Lennox, although Lennox claim the opposite.

    The Carrier sales person also mentioned that the only air filter system that is any good is the Trane Clean Effects. I had the Lennox guy quote on the Pure Air system, both are about the same price.

    Would appreciate any advice on the truth or otherwise of these claims. I realize this is probably a polarizing topic.

    Thank you !
    Beware of the Clean effects/Accuclean not because they aren't a good product but because you have to be very dedicated to the maintenance requirements. The pressure drop goes through the roof on these air cleaners and start out high to begin with. Every manufacturer has sales points for their particular brand. Carrier's controls are hard to match up to. But some people believe the rest of the equipment leaves something to be desired. Lennox is a decent company as long as you stay away from base equipment.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by m kilgore View Post
    Did either run a manual J for sizing the equipment?
    Thank you for your response.

    Neither company ran a manual J calc, I can't find anyone local that does this, its all rule of thumb. One guy said a 60,000 btu furnace would be fine and the next guy specified a 90,000 btu unit. When I quizzed them both (individually) about this, they said if I want the next size larger or smaller that would be fine, no change to their quote.

    I was thinking of downloading that HVAC Computer software and doing my own calculation, is it accurate ? Either that or find a consultant to come in and do it for me. I'm somewhat competent technically so I'll probably go with the HVAC Computer solution if its accurate, I want to check out my duct sizes, etc as well to make sure there are no bottlenecks.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    258
    Quote Originally Posted by slowreno View Post
    Thank you for your response.

    Neither company ran a manual J calc, I can't find anyone local that does this, its all rule of thumb. One guy said a 60,000 btu furnace would be fine and the next guy specified a 90,000 btu unit. When I quizzed them both (individually) about this, they said if I want the next size larger or smaller that would be fine, no change to their quote.

    I was thinking of downloading that HVAC Computer software and doing my own calculation, is it accurate ? Either that or find a consultant to come in and do it for me. I'm somewhat competent technically so I'll probably go with the HVAC Computer solution if its accurate, I want to check out my duct sizes, etc as well to make sure there are no bottlenecks.
    What brand and model of furnace do you have in place now? Also how old is it?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    1,051
    Quote Originally Posted by slowreno View Post
    Thank you for your response.

    Neither company ran a manual J calc, I can't find anyone local that does this, its all rule of thumb. One guy said a 60,000 btu furnace would be fine and the next guy specified a 90,000 btu unit. When I quizzed them both (individually) about this, they said if I want the next size larger or smaller that would be fine, no change to their quote.

    I was thinking of downloading that HVAC Computer software and doing my own calculation, is it accurate ? Either that or find a consultant to come in and do it for me. I'm somewhat competent technically so I'll probably go with the HVAC Computer solution if its accurate, I want to check out my duct sizes, etc as well to make sure there are no bottlenecks.
    I don't know why it should be your responsibility to size your equipment properly. Call around and find someone to do this properly. Thats a big difference in sizes and you comfort and efficiency are going to suffer. I would get the program advertised on this site for a easy to use manual j. A manual J is only as good as the info put into it.

    It dosn't sound like either company wants to do there job properly. What other corners are they willing to cut?
    Its a good Life!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,803
    The Carrier guy scares me. He sounds desperate for a sale, spooling all that BS.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by yourairman View Post
    What brand and model of furnace do you have in place now? Also how old is it?
    The furnace is 35 years old (I think - same age as house), it is a Weatherwise WH-115. I can't find a btu output on the but it says the bonnet capacity is 92 if that means anything.

    See the pic below.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    The Carrier guy scares me. He sounds desperate for a sale, spooling all that BS.
    Ok, so is what he said BS then ?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,803
    Pretty much every thing he told you about the differences between Lennox and Carrier is total BS.

    If he has to bash other brands to sell. He knows his brand and the company he works for has nothing better to offer you over the other company or brand.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    The Carrier guy scares me. He sounds desperate for a sale, spooling all that BS.
    Amen!

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