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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Just lurking for my own education. Only way to be notified when more posts come through.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Dell Rapids, SD
    Posts
    44
    I "plan" on using split closed cell foam pipe insulation. I haven't gotten around to it yet though.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    57
    the feet per ton is determined by the soil. I am not familure with that area to give an acurate answer. But do not run loops over 350 ft max. the head loss in the piping will require a much larger and noisier pump.

    and if they are doing it horizontal request flow controls per loop. ball valves on the supply and retuna long with a hose connection on atleast one of the loops for purging.

    Seen it not done like this and was a nightmare!!!

  4. #17
    Cool Breeze
    I do not agree with you on limiting the loop length to 350 feet, the is no difference on a vertical loop field or horizontal, as far as length, or fusing and purging practice. The length of the header piping and manifolds need to calculated for proper pump sizing. Also the field must be piped in a reverse return, and filled and purged with a purge cart that is capable of forcing all of the air out of the system. I have done many systems like this, vertical, horizontal and slinky loops, and have never had an issue with removing air or balanacing, as long as great care is taken in making all the loops very similar as far as length in the field.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    161
    Quote Originally Posted by softail124 View Post
    Cool Breeze
    I do not agree with you on limiting the loop length to 350 feet, the is no difference on a vertical loop field or horizontal, as far as length, or fusing and purging practice. The length of the header piping and manifolds need to calculated for proper pump sizing. Also the field must be piped in a reverse return, and filled and purged with a purge cart that is capable of forcing all of the air out of the system. I have done many systems like this, vertical, horizontal and slinky loops, and have never had an issue with removing air or balanacing, as long as great care is taken in making all the loops very similar as far as length in the field.
    I agree. I have 3 parallel loops all 1000' long. They were plumbed slinky style in a reverse-return configuration, and it all works just fine.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    57
    all piping should be reverse return. I agree.

    the length numbers I got from the engineer. And in field findings I would have to agree.

    A pump sized with enough head will draw more amperage, usualy 2 pumps for push pull. which raises the operation cost is another reason.
    with geo we are nittygrity on operation cost are we not? why spend the money to do geo if we are not.

    Never said longer loops would not work. Higher temp drop or rise will come from it.


    I must add to my previous post. I stated when horizontal. I should have stated on either horizontal or vertical.... bla the rest. Hose connections were for the purge cart.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    14
    Lots of info to consider! My soil is sticky yellow clay fron 2' to 22'.(South central Minnesota) Apperentely a moist soil. They will bore about 15 feet down and 4 loops at 410 feet per loop. I was told tubes are 205 feet long and must have a out to the field and back to the house to make 410 feet per loop.
    Is this a reverse return you were talking about? Never heard that term. By the way this would be a horizontal boring loop field.
    The HP would be a 4 ton Bryant GT-PX split. 6 year old single story ranch style house, 1344sf with full basement. 2 by 6 walls, R-45 in ceiling. Heat with forced air propane. Does all this sound like a feasible/wise investment? Wish I could say what the final quote was, but rules are rules.
    Thanks for any info,
    Also any advice on Fed 30 % tax credit I should be aware of?

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,793
    Are the potential contractors using a computer based heat gain/loss program? You might want to look at this grout, a little pricey but I think its worth it. There are some inherent problems with grout in general...be sure to do your homework.

    http://supergroutproducts.com/flash/

  9. #22
    You generally need significantly less loop per ton when the loops are installed below 15', as is common with horizontal directional drilling or vertical drilling.

    This is primarily due to the fact that the temperature fluctuation is much less at 15' than at 4-6' depth of horizontal trenched systems and secondarily due to the water content that affects thermal conductivity is also more stable at depth.

    -Adam
    Hydrogeologist

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