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  1. #27
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    Nov 2009
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    Central Virginia
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    146
    Looks pretty cool. The only problem I see, is the size of this thing. It's huge. Around here, they stick water heaters in pretty weird places. 75 and half inches tall, plus a stand under it... With the filter being top-mounted, how many homeowners are going to clean that filter regularly? Oh well, just my 2 cents on it.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Baltimore MD and Ridgebury PA
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    542
    Quote Originally Posted by SaladTater View Post
    I've been thinking about this HPWH thing lately. To Jerryd, Rheem, Geyser and many others have HPWHs. The claim to fame of GE's hybrid design is that it's the first to get certified under new energy efficiency standards.

    I've been wondering about the cooling problem this technology presents. Does anyone know how much the air temperatures changes from inlet to outlet? A regular family size unit for example.
    I thought Rheem was certified as well. Dunno about the others.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Baltimore MD and Ridgebury PA
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    542
    Quote Originally Posted by bullmoose View Post
    Looks pretty cool. The only problem I see, is the size of this thing. It's huge. Around here, they stick water heaters in pretty weird places. 75 and half inches tall, plus a stand under it... With the filter being top-mounted, how many homeowners are going to clean that filter regularly? Oh well, just my 2 cents on it.
    It's huge? The GE is 60.5 inches tall. They allow 14 inches to remove the filter which means it needs about 75 inches of space... which is only 6' 3". What stand are you referring to? It should probably have an overflow pan but that would add a negligible amount to the height.

    My basement is only 6' tall and the existing water heater is every bit of 5' tall. I could still fit the GE if I wanted to since I would have more than the required 65 inches of clearance if I centered it under the joist spacing since the extra 3 inches is only needed to remove the filter.

    I'm not saying that where you are they don't put water heaters in even tighter spaces... but if they don't have the space for this water heater then they probably don't have enough cubic feet of space in said location for ventilation of the unit anyway.


    I just realized you were referring to the Rheem unit. It unfortunately doesn't state the required clearance to remove the filter on their unit. Regardless, if you don't have 6.5' of space then you probably don't have the ventilation required so you couldn't install it anyway.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Colorado flatland native
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    15,067

    I put in a Rheem

    Yea, theyre HUGE! Really sucks alot of heat from the area it's in. Wish I could stop back in to see the temp of the space. Kinda loud too. I really cant believe there is no condensor sound blanket. Only an American company would ignore that. Mitubishi should be buildin a better one any day now. With hyper heat.
    My doctor gave me six months to live, but when I couldn't pay the bill he gave me six months more.
    Walter Matthau

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas via Chicago Area via Straight Up from There on Lake Superior
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    1,411
    Quote Originally Posted by SaladTater View Post
    I've been thinking about this HPWH thing lately. To Jerryd, Rheem, Geyser and many others have HPWHs. The claim to fame of GE's hybrid design is that it's the first to get certified under new energy efficiency standards.

    I've been wondering about the cooling problem this technology presents. Does anyone know how much the air temperatures changes from inlet to outlet? A regular family size unit for example.
    Thanks for the heads up on other brands. I was aware of add-on units but not integrated units like GE.

    Later posts raise several issues including height/width, cooling the surrounding space and filters. My HWH is in the garage sitting on an HVAC plenum. Definitely a height/width issue. The cooling is a real plus in my situation because I would like to remove humidity in the garage and cooling is not an issue. Would have been advantageous in our previous house too where the basement required a portable dehumidifier to keep things less moldy. Filters! Never even passed my mind that they might need these. And of course, my problem like other HO's with a NG HW heater, running 220 is an issue.

    To solve all of my problems, an efficient condensing NG HWH (would hook into condensate pump for HVAC) and a portable dehumidifier seems feasible if I resign myself to endless emptying of of the DH due to no drains. If anyone has other solutions, I sure would appreciate suggestions.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Central Virginia
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    146
    Quote Originally Posted by platchford View Post
    It's huge? The GE is 60.5 inches tall. They allow 14 inches to remove the filter which means it needs about 75 inches of space... which is only 6' 3". What stand are you referring to? It should probably have an overflow pan but that would add a negligible amount to the height.

    My basement is only 6' tall and the existing water heater is every bit of 5' tall. I could still fit the GE if I wanted to since I would have more than the required 65 inches of clearance if I centered it under the joist spacing since the extra 3 inches is only needed to remove the filter.

    I'm not saying that where you are they don't put water heaters in even tighter spaces... but if they don't have the space for this water heater then they probably don't have enough cubic feet of space in said location for ventilation of the unit anyway.

    I just realized you were referring to the Rheem unit. It unfortunately doesn't state the required clearance to remove the filter on their unit. Regardless, if you don't have 6.5' of space then you probably don't have the ventilation required so you couldn't install it anyway.



    So you mean to tell me where you are, you just sit a water heater thats in a garage right on the floor? Around here it has to be on a 24" stand, in a garage. So that would make it 8'3" tall... They would have enough venitlation but not height... So when I get a customer that calls and wants a price on one, I will just send em your way. I don't want this headace!

  7. #33
    I've been looking into the history of this technology. The last link has a classic B&W picture... It says 1997 but it looks much older.

    http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2005/rpt/120517.pdf
    http://www.oikos.com/esb/41/eahpstudy.html
    http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/he...97/970710.html

    Commercial HPWHs go back to the late 1970s/early 1980s. Early units had all the problems that you'd expect from a new product. The early failures led to a bad reputation and the market never reached critical mass. Despite the niche status, HPWH have made steady improvements in cost and reliability.

    Integrated units have been around for many years but again, the market has always been small - I haven't conducted an exhaustive survey but there were generally two manufacturers in the market at any given time who each produced maybe 200 units a year throughout the 1990s and early 2000s. Within the last five years several new manufacturers have entered the game. I'm not an HVAC expert but I figure it has something to do with improvements in heat pump costs, reliability, etc. Ten years ago an HPWH cost $1000 more than a conventional unit. The new GE unit is advertised as only $400. Interestingly, the first link above talks about rebranding HPWHs with a new name... It could just be a coincidence but GE is calling their unit a Hybrid water heater.

    I've read the air's delta T from inlet to outlet is about 20 F. Does this number sound about right? I'm looking for a graph that shows how the COP changes for various inlet temps and humidities. Has anyone seen something like this? One other thing that's been bugging me. Why aren't water heaters made shorter and fatter? This would reduce the ratio of surface area to volume and make them easier to insulate? Any thoughts?

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Baltimore MD and Ridgebury PA
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    542
    Quote Originally Posted by bullmoose View Post
    So you mean to tell me where you are, you just sit a water heater thats in a garage right on the floor? Around here it has to be on a 24" stand, in a garage. So that would make it 8'3" tall... They would have enough venitlation but not height... So when I get a customer that calls and wants a price on one, I will just send em your way. I don't want this headace!
    In your previous post you didn't mention the stand specifically being a requirement in a garage and, to be honest, it is very unusual to find a water heater in a garage here so, no, its not something that crossed my mind. If you read my post I was referring to basement installs... sorry for the misunderstanding. What is the reasoning for it being on a 24" stand if in a garage anyway?

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    3,910
    Quote Originally Posted by platchford View Post
    In your previous post you didn't mention the stand specifically being a requirement in a garage and, to be honest, it is very unusual to find a water heater in a garage here so, no, its not something that crossed my mind. If you read my post I was referring to basement installs... sorry for the misunderstanding. What is the reasoning for it being on a 24" stand if in a garage anyway?

    24"s is in case combustibles (gasoline) gets loose in garage. Theoretically to keep contacts above the stratification level of such combustibles.

    Anyone know what this puppy would cost installed? $$$.$$ or $$$$.$$
    Governments don't tax to get the money they need, governments will always find a need for the money they get. Ronald Wilson Reagon

    Born Again KA

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb View Post

    Anyone know what this puppy would cost installed? $$$.$$ or $$$$.$$
    Not in the general forums.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Area 51
    Posts
    984
    I hope this goes better than the previous attempts to combine HVAC and hot water , Amana HTM, Lennox Complete Heat
    "Paddle faster, I hear banjo music"

  12. #38
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    May 2000
    Location
    Colorado flatland native
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    15,067
    Quote Originally Posted by jayhawker View Post
    I hope this goes better than the previous attempts to combine HVAC and hot water , Amana HTM, Lennox Complete Heat

    Good point. This may be off the wall, but every time I see a heat pump, I wonder why, in Fla and other warm climates why they dont heat their pools by cooling their homes. Put the condensor in the pool. Put the heat in the water.
    My doctor gave me six months to live, but when I couldn't pay the bill he gave me six months more.
    Walter Matthau

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    ky
    Posts
    181
    Quote Originally Posted by spotts View Post
    Good point. This may be off the wall, but every time I see a heat pump, I wonder why, in Fla and other warm climates why they dont heat their pools by cooling their homes. Put the condensor in the pool. Put the heat in the water.
    There was a study for the feasibility to use pool as part of the heat exchange. some sort of semi Geothermal unit where part of the ground loop is in swimming pool circuit.

    google residential swimming pool with geothermal heatpump systems.

    Instead of putting the condensor unit in the pool, a Heat exchanger before the condensor would probaly make a better solution.
    The problem that i can see is the Heat Pump run time would probably do squat to heat the pool during the beginning of spring and end of fall where pool heating need would be highest.

    In the middle of summer in florida , who need a pool heater ??

    Thus a solar cover would probably cheaper and less complex.

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