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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,635

    CARRIER Infinity SAM Internet Access - the website SUCKS!

    Anybody Selling/Buying/Using these with Infinity Systems?

    I'd love to hear other's experiences with them, why they are or aren't selling them, etc...
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    196
    Carrier architectured the system to require an annual extortion ('subscription') fee from the end user. The centralized design adds no value for the end user but is extremely profitable for Carrier.

    Buyer beware.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,635
    Actually you don't need to pay the annual fee unless you want remote access. Even then, if you are web savy you can probably work around it.

    From the local network you can access the system directly - so if you can figure out how to access your home network from abroad, you don't need the hosting service.

    Is nice to get e-mails telling you system faults though.

    Now if CARRIER would just fix the totally cheesy, POS http://www.myinfinity.carrier.com/remoteaccess/ interface and start data logging... After hitting the customer the cost of a notebook computer, then $100 per year for the web interface - it's a major embarrassment and generally degrades an amazing system.

    Like baking a perfect cake then putting a turd on top. Look at the bottom of the web site. They haven't even updated the copyright since 2006...

    Not sure how profitable $100 a year is if they only have a few of them out there. I don't know anybody else that has sold any, and I suspect my customers won't renew that $100 if they don't get some better value for it.

    Both have computer guys in their employ and both feel ripped off - I bet one will figure out a remote work around.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    5,998
    The objective is not attainable.

    Just think about it.
    If one were a god, control of _Infinity_ would evolve into what is about the same as the 'tower of babel'
    that we now have on earth with 500 + uncontrolled governments.

    Carrier has embarked on a long evolutionary path to now
    Remotely Control its HVAC 'tower of babel'.

    If it ain't broke, Don't FIX it. ... Where did KISS as a Reliable solution ever go?

    Have a Pleasant and Simple day!
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    154
    I'm an IT guy and could access this thing in a New York minute from the outside without paying Carrier that stupid 100/yr. That being said, the cost of the extra hardware is highway robbery and the benefits you get are not worth it.

    "You can postpone your cooling set point from the office if you have to work late."
    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... with a payback of 24 years for that convenience...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,635
    The potential for data logging is the big opportunity. Of the big furnace mfrs - Carrier is the only one I know of that is even close.

    If you used your bonus room once a month, data logging will show you it's being cooled to 68 when you don't want it to be. Data logging can help diagnose comfort issues, be aware of and trouble shoot durability issues, avoid discovering energy waste via the utility bill (possibly months into a problem).

    Go to www.OurCoolHouse.com and check out what Phil has done. The implications of being able to track real time are mind boggling. If this doesn't help you understand the incredible opportunities data logging offers, maybe someone else can take a stab at it.

    If you've ever sold a SAM and played with it, you'd probably always offer and recommend them. (I wouldn't own an Infinity System without it.) I think Carrier will realize their web interface sucks, and that they need to redesign it and provide data logging.



    Most people don't run all their decisions on "payback," in fact most don't truly understand what it means, how to calculate it, or how to analyze it.

    When you do, what depreciation assumption do you use? Are you going to borrow the money (leverage) or use your own cash? What about the opportunity cost assumption - going to include that? Banks are paying less than 1% - you going to use that rate?

    If you borrow the money, and your investment covers the financing, isn't payback instant? If your financing cost is $1 per month, and your investment saves $1.10 - is that a bad deal if your "payback" is 40 years? Looks like you are making money on someone else's capital.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    154
    You need to be in accounting. Your efforts are wasted here defending an expensive useless product that DOES NOT DO what you want it to do.

    Nor does the website, which has remained UNCHANGED for 3 years now.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,635
    But if enough people actually got it - Carrier might put the energy into having it do what I want it to do which would take it from fairly useless toy to incredibly useful tool.

    Clearly very few people are selling this thing, only me on this board.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    But if enough people actually got it - Carrier might put the energy into having it do what I want it to do which would take it from fairly useless toy to incredibly useful tool.

    Clearly very few people are selling this thing, only me on this board.
    Then here's a sales tip for you. Take it to Carrier...

    In the real world, people buy products that they think will be useful for them. Whether they be shoes or jeans or a laptop computer or a car or anything. They don't but jeans without a zipper with the hope that Levis will send them a zipper after they take them home. They don't buy a car without tires with the hope that Ford will send them tires after they somehow get the car home.

    Likewise, why should people buy a useless, expensive system from Carrier, with the hope that Carrier will add to it in future, if/when Carrier finally figures out that their dog won't hunt.

    I think not.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,635
    Have been. Maybe you have a better channel? Anybody?

    I'm thinking a little exposure and comment from other contractors and the public might also be an effective motivator. Let's see how long it takes for someone at Carrier to get involved.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas via Chicago Area via Straight Up from There on Lake Superior
    Posts
    1,411
    Quote Originally Posted by dallasbill View Post
    I'm an IT guy and could access this thing in a New York minute from the outside without paying Carrier that stupid 100/yr. ...
    Does that mean that any kid in the neighborhood can screw with your HVAC settings?

    Just because it's cool, doesn't mean it's smart.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Marco Island, Fl
    Posts
    715
    We sell about 10-15 a year, and the customers love them. We sell them primarily to part time home owners, who go north for the summer.

    If they have a home automation system, they do not have to pay the $100.00 a year as Carrier designed it to connect to home automation systems.

    The best benefit is it contacts US if the system fails, or filter cloggs, of the lawn guy or painter turns off the condensing unit disconnect, it lets the owner know, and US know.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by jerryd_2008 View Post
    Does that mean that any kid in the neighborhood can screw with your HVAC settings?

    Just because it's cool, doesn't mean it's smart.
    What the heck are you babbling about?

    Anybody with any network knowledge can set up their home network for secure, controlled access from the outside. The SAM is just another node on your home network, that you DON'T have to pay Carrier to get to, if you know how.

    Regardless of how you get to it, you're still "screwing with your HVAC settings."

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