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  1. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    That is lie and pure garbage and a personal attack geer. I haven't called you any of those names for blindly following everything the Democratic Party does but one could. You said I wallowed in ignorance, bigoted and dishonest because I don't buy the commie socialist line the Democratic Party sings.
    Whether you know it or not there is a Republican organization of politically active gays called "Log Cabin Republicans." Look it up.

    Instead of showing where any of this was true or that the prevalence for child molestation by gays is not higher than the rest of the population you launch a personal attack.
    Let's review: I gave you certain facts about Paul Cameron which by themselves would lead a rational person to conclude that Cameron has very little credibility.

    I further present a technical review by an expert in this field who found six major errors with Cameron's work. The work, I might add that you use to support your view.

    To wrap it up, I presented the view of an internationally recognized expert in this field who concluded, based on scientific evidence, that gays are less likey than heterosexual males to commit sexual abuse against children.


    Now, how you can assert that I have not presented any evidence is absurd given that this evidence is right there in the post in black and white.







    An apology and a sanction I think is in order.
    The only apology necessary is the one from you to the gay community for spreading discredited and false allegations against gays.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  2. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Just because science says something that you don't like doesn't make it a commie socialist line.

    Besides, no one can say what is right or wrong in this case. Science says "we don't know the cause". So that makes Byrd the liar. Not Mr. Geer.

    Even believers acknowledge micro-evolution, Glenn. Given that, see if this doesn't make sense. If homosexuality was genetic, well... gays don't produce a heck of a lot of kids. So, logically, that gene would be gone from the pool long ago.

    Again, we don't really know. But there are obvious problems with the genetics line of reasoning.
    Actually scrog, glenn didn't bring up the genetic thing, that was classical. Glenn's attempted point, using a deeply flawed survey, was that gays are more likely to be pedophiles.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  3. #68
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    Ooops. My mistake.

    Apologies, Glenn.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    There are all kinds of 'family' or 'Christian' web pages that use the same source for their conclusion. I tried to chase down the sources and came up with this.



    The author of the cited report.



    http://www.centerforinquiry.net/uplo...orTheWeb_1.pdf

    The internet is a wonderful place for getting information.


    Well geer I checked your sources and it is not an independent neutral source. It is just like you biased to the left and anti religious in its fundamental core. Check this quote from the "Center of Inquiry"

    "Where appropriate, the Center or one of its affiliates, such as the Council for Secular Humanism, may file its own lawsuit. In addition, the Legal Department will also consider offering free legal assistance to individuals who believe that their constitutional rights are in jeopardy or that they have experienced discrimination because they are not religious.

    CFI Communities are groups of freethinkers, rationalists, skeptics, humanists, atheists, and agnostics who come together for many reasons. First and foremost, CFI Communities offer support, educational programming, and social activities for nonreligious and skeptical people. (Religious people are welcome, too, of course.)

    Fostering a secular society requires attention to many specific goals, but three goals in particular represent the focus of our activities:
    1. an end to the influence that religion and pseudoscience have on public policy
    2. an end to the privileged position that religion and pseudoscience continue to enjoy in many societies
    3. an end to the stigma attached to being a nonbeliever, whether the nonbeliever describes her/himself as an atheist, agnostic, humanist, freethinker or skeptic."
    This is the organization which geer thinks has all the answers and what they say goes and says that anyone of religious faith is wrong even when showing the facts about how perverted a lot of gays are.

    Here is more research on the subject.

    "The Los Angeles Times (6) surveyed 2,628 adults across the U.S. in 1985. 27% of the women and 16% of the men claimed to have been sexually molested. Since 7% of the molestations of girls and 93% of the molestations of boys were by adults of the same sex, about 4 of every 10 molestations in this survey were homosexual.
    In a random survey of British 15-to-19 yr olds, 35% of the boys and 9% of the girls claimed to have been approached for sex by adult homosexuals and 2% of the boys and 1% of the girls admitted to succumbing. (7)
    In science, a review of the professional literature published in a refereed scientific journal is considered to be an accurate summary of the current state of knowledge. The latest such review was published in 1985. (8) It concluded that homosexual acts were involved in 25% to 40% of the cases of child molestation recorded in the scientific and forensic literature."

    http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?id=11002

    But Reisman points to figures from a 1991 population study by the U.S. Department of Commerce.

    It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult."



    These are the facts geer but I am not saying you are "wallowing in ignorance, dishonesty and bigotry, and scientific inquiry, logic and reason are helpless to correct this affliction." I don't resort to insulting you for your biased position. I think you owe me and this forum an apology for your unprovoked personal attack on me and this is against the rules of the forum but you seem to get away with it with impunity lately. But I will endeavor to correct you or any one else who does the same for now on. Thank you very much.
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well geer I checked your sources and it is not an independent neutral source. It is just like you biased to the left and anti religious in its fundamental core. Check this quote from the "Center of Inquiry"

    "Where appropriate, the Center or one of its affiliates, such as the Council for Secular Humanism, may file its own lawsuit. In addition, the Legal Department will also consider offering free legal assistance to individuals who believe that their constitutional rights are in jeopardy or that they have experienced discrimination because they are not religious.

    CFI Communities are groups of freethinkers, rationalists, skeptics, humanists, atheists, and agnostics who come together for many reasons. First and foremost, CFI Communities offer support, educational programming, and social activities for nonreligious and skeptical people. (Religious people are welcome, too, of course.)

    Fostering a secular society requires attention to many specific goals, but three goals in particular represent the focus of our activities:
    1. an end to the influence that religion and pseudoscience have on public policy
    2. an end to the privileged position that religion and pseudoscience continue to enjoy in many societies
    3. an end to the stigma attached to being a nonbeliever, whether the nonbeliever describes her/himself as an atheist, agnostic, humanist, freethinker or skeptic."
    This is the organization which geer thinks has all the answers and what they say goes and says that anyone of religious faith is wrong even when showing the facts about how perverted a lot of gays are.

    Here is more research on the subject.

    "The Los Angeles Times (6) surveyed 2,628 adults across the U.S. in 1985. 27% of the women and 16% of the men claimed to have been sexually molested. Since 7% of the molestations of girls and 93% of the molestations of boys were by adults of the same sex, about 4 of every 10 molestations in this survey were homosexual.
    In a random survey of British 15-to-19 yr olds, 35% of the boys and 9% of the girls claimed to have been approached for sex by adult homosexuals and 2% of the boys and 1% of the girls admitted to succumbing. (7)
    In science, a review of the professional literature published in a refereed scientific journal is considered to be an accurate summary of the current state of knowledge. The latest such review was published in 1985. (8) It concluded that homosexual acts were involved in 25% to 40% of the cases of child molestation recorded in the scientific and forensic literature."

    http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?id=11002

    But Reisman points to figures from a 1991 population study by the U.S. Department of Commerce.

    It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult."



    These are the facts geer but I am not saying you are "wallowing in ignorance, dishonesty and bigotry, and scientific inquiry, logic and reason are helpless to correct this affliction." I don't resort to insulting you for your biased position. I think you owe me and this forum an apology for your unprovoked personal attack on me and this is against the rules of the forum but you seem to get away with it with impunity lately. But I will endeavor to correct you or any one else who does the same for now on. Thank you very much.
    Seeing that you were talking to geer but posted my comment I guess I could say a word or two.

    What is a homosexual and what is a child molester? Is on the other? Could people reporting on child molesters (and the children) get the two confused?

    Part of the problem is our own attitudes. If a man molests a young girl he is a pervert. If a man molests a young boy he is gay, right?

    What kind of man who was not gay would want to molest a boy rather than a girl? It is proof that he is gay because as men we are not interested in men unless we are gay. When a the man molests a boy it is not proof he is gay.

    Which is quite wrong with child molesters. To them it does not matter if it is a girl or boy. Given the opportunity they will molest either. Boys may even give them an added attraction as it is even more taboo than girls. It is the perverse nature of the crime that gets the child molester his thrill. They are interested in perverting innocence and youth.

  6. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Seeing that you were talking to geer but posted my comment I guess I could say a word or two.

    What is a homosexual and what is a child molester? Is on the other? Could people reporting on child molesters (and the children) get the two confused?

    Part of the problem is our own attitudes. If a man molests a young girl he is a pervert. If a man molests a young boy he is gay, right?

    What kind of man who was not gay would want to molest a boy rather than a girl? It is proof that he is gay because as men we are not interested in men unless we are gay. When a the man molests a boy it is not proof he is gay.

    Which is quite wrong with child molesters. To them it does not matter if it is a girl or boy. Given the opportunity they will molest either. Boys may even give them an added attraction as it is even more taboo than girls. It is the perverse nature of the crime that gets the child molester his thrill. They are interested in perverting innocence and youth.
    Interesting concept but I never heard of it and if that were true to any "significant" degree I believe we would all have heard a lot about it. Do you have any proof that the majority of molesters of boys are not gay and also molest girls too. I do know that there is an organization The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...ve_Association

    NAMBLA holds an annual gathering in New York City and monthly meetings around the country.[4][clarification needed] In the early 1980s, NAMBLA was reported to have had over 300 members, and was supported by such noted figures as Allen Ginsberg.[5] Since then, the organization has kept membership data private, but an undercover FBI investigation in 1995 discovered that there were 1,100 people on the rolls.[4] It is the largest organization in the umbrella group Ipce[6] (formerly "International Pedophile and Child Emancipation").[6



    One would have to believe that they are gay to the core. I rest my case. Thank you very much.
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  7. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Interesting concept but I never heard of it and if that were true to any "significant" degree I believe we would all have heard a lot about it. Do you have any proof that the majority of molesters of boys are not gay and also molest girls too. I do know that there is an organization The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...ve_Association

    NAMBLA holds an annual gathering in New York City and monthly meetings around the country.[4][clarification needed] In the early 1980s, NAMBLA was reported to have had over 300 members, and was supported by such noted figures as Allen Ginsberg.[5] Since then, the organization has kept membership data private, but an undercover FBI investigation in 1995 discovered that there were 1,100 people on the rolls.[4] It is the largest organization in the umbrella group Ipce[6] (formerly "International Pedophile and Child Emancipation").[6



    One would have to believe that they are gay to the core. I rest my case. Thank you very much.
    Doctor Gene Able is the author of the report the Baptist website you linked uses to say gays were child molesters.

    http://www.childmolestationpreventio...pdfs/study.pdf

    Exerpted from The Stop Child Molestation Book, by Gene G.Abel, M.D. and Nora Harlow
    ADULT SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS OF MEN WHO MOLEST BOYS page 11-12

    These findings are in direct opposition to the generally accepted opinion that the overwhelmingly majority of men who molest boys are homosexual.
    Sorry I could not paste the complete text, for some reason it comes up as non-printable characters.

    CROSSING MULTIPLE SEXUAL BOUNDARYS page 13

    When we analyzed the reports of 2,429 men in our pedophilia group, we found a high percentage of men molesting both boys and girls and a high percentage of pedophiles engaging in more than one paraphilia. (edit: paraphilia - other perversion. )

    This finding may help in the protection of children by indicating the need for more extensive evaluation of exhibitionists and voyeurs.
    In the conclusion the authors give their recommendations they say they know the characteristics of child molesters. Not a word on gays.

  8. #73
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  9. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    Actually scrog, glenn didn't bring up the genetic thing, that was classical. Glenn's attempted point, using a deeply flawed survey, was that gays are more likely to be pedophiles.
    Actually seaton indirectly brought up the gene thing not I and Hugh actually mentioned genes first. I said a do not know for sure but there is no proof either way.

    I also did not bring up pedophiles, all I did was type in a question about the link between homosexuals and pedophiles and those links were at the top.

  10. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well geer I checked your sources and it is not an independent neutral source. It is just like you biased to the left and anti religious in its fundamental core. Check this quote from the "Center of Inquiry"

    "Where appropriate, the Center or one of its affiliates, such as the Council for Secular Humanism, may file its own lawsuit. In addition, the Legal Department will also consider offering free legal assistance to individuals who believe that their constitutional rights are in jeopardy or that they have experienced discrimination because they are not religious.

    CFI Communities are groups of freethinkers, rationalists, skeptics, humanists, atheists, and agnostics who come together for many reasons. First and foremost, CFI Communities offer support, educational programming, and social activities for nonreligious and skeptical people. (Religious people are welcome, too, of course.)

    Fostering a secular society requires attention to many specific goals, but three goals in particular represent the focus of our activities:
    1. an end to the influence that religion and pseudoscience have on public policy
    2. an end to the privileged position that religion and pseudoscience continue to enjoy in many societies
    3. an end to the stigma attached to being a nonbeliever, whether the nonbeliever describes her/himself as an atheist, agnostic, humanist, freethinker or skeptic."
    This is the organization which geer thinks has all the answers and what they say goes and says that anyone of religious faith is wrong even when showing the facts about how perverted a lot of gays are.
    Well Glenn old buddy, the Center of Inquiry was not my source, it was printer 2's source.

    Try again.

    Here is more research on the subject.

    "The Los Angeles Times (6) surveyed 2,628 adults across the U.S. in 1985. 27% of the women and 16% of the men claimed to have been sexually molested. Since 7% of the molestations of girls and 93% of the molestations of boys were by adults of the same sex, about 4 of every 10 molestations in this survey were homosexual.
    In a random survey of British 15-to-19 yr olds, 35% of the boys and 9% of the girls claimed to have been approached for sex by adult homosexuals and 2% of the boys and 1% of the girls admitted to succumbing. (7)
    In science, a review of the professional literature published in a refereed scientific journal is considered to be an accurate summary of the current state of knowledge. The latest such review was published in 1985. (8) It concluded that homosexual acts were involved in 25% to 40% of the cases of child molestation recorded in the scientific and forensic literature."
    Once again the source of this analysis is Paul Cameron of the Family Research Institute. If you remember, Cameron has history of misrepresenting, quotemining and distorting other scientists work. He has no credibility in the social science or psychological communties.

    http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?id=11002

    But Reisman points to figures from a 1991 population study by the U.S. Department of Commerce.

    It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult."
    Jeez, where do you find this nonsense? Reisman is a known loony with no academic training or expertise in the relevant field. Her training and degree are in communications for Zeus' sake. Ms. Reisman seems to have the same proclivity for misrepresenting and distorting as Cameron.









    [FONT=Arial]These are the facts geer but I am not saying you are "wallowing in ignorance, dishonesty and bigotry, and scientific inquiry, logic and reason are helpless to correct this affliction." I don't resort to insulting you for your biased position.
    You have presented no facts. What you have presented is intellectual dishonesty from religiously motivated quacks.

    The fact remains that the scientific evidence supports the conclusion that homosexuals are no more likely to sexually molest children than heterosexuals.




    I think you owe me and this forum an apology for your unprovoked personal attack on me and this is against the rules of the forum but you seem to get away with it with impunity lately.
    I get away with it because the committee does not consider what I wrote to be a personal attack.






    But I will endeavor to correct you or any one else who does the same for now on.
    When do you plan to start this correction process?
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  11. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    Actually seaton indirectly brought up the gene thing not I and Hugh actually mentioned genes first. I said a do not know for sure but there is no proof either way.

    I also did not bring up pedophiles, all I did was type in a question about the link between homosexuals and pedophiles and those links were at the top.
    Thank you for clearing that up.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Doctor Gene Able is the author of the report the Baptist website you linked uses to say gays were child molesters.

    http://www.childmolestationpreventio...pdfs/study.pdf

    Exerpted from The Stop Child Molestation Book, by Gene G.Abel, M.D. and Nora Harlow


    Sorry I could not paste the complete text, for some reason it comes up as non-printable characters.



    In the conclusion the authors give their recommendations they say they know the characteristics of child molesters. Not a word on gays.
    Yes, this is just one example of the distortion and dishonesty practiced by these anti-gay groups.

    Many other scientistrs have had their work distorted and misrepresented by these fanatics.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  13. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well geer I checked your sources and it is not an independent neutral source. It is just like you biased to the left and anti religious in its fundamental core. Check this quote from the "Center of Inquiry"

    "Where appropriate, the Center or one of its affiliates, such as the Council for Secular Humanism, may file its own lawsuit. In addition, the Legal Department will also consider offering free legal assistance to individuals who believe that their constitutional rights are in jeopardy or that they have experienced discrimination because they are not religious.

    CFI Communities are groups of freethinkers, rationalists, skeptics, humanists, atheists, and agnostics who come together for many reasons. First and foremost, CFI Communities offer support, educational programming, and social activities for nonreligious and skeptical people. (Religious people are welcome, too, of course.)

    Fostering a secular society requires attention to many specific goals, but three goals in particular represent the focus of our activities:
    1. an end to the influence that religion and pseudoscience have on public policy
    2. an end to the privileged position that religion and pseudoscience continue to enjoy in many societies
    3. an end to the stigma attached to being a nonbeliever, whether the nonbeliever describes her/himself as an atheist, agnostic, humanist, freethinker or skeptic."
    This is the organization which geer thinks has all the answers and what they say goes and says that anyone of religious faith is wrong even when showing the facts about how perverted a lot of gays are.

    Here is more research on the subject.

    "The Los Angeles Times (6) surveyed 2,628 adults across the U.S. in 1985. 27% of the women and 16% of the men claimed to have been sexually molested. Since 7% of the molestations of girls and 93% of the molestations of boys were by adults of the same sex, about 4 of every 10 molestations in this survey were homosexual.
    In a random survey of British 15-to-19 yr olds, 35% of the boys and 9% of the girls claimed to have been approached for sex by adult homosexuals and 2% of the boys and 1% of the girls admitted to succumbing. (7)
    In science, a review of the professional literature published in a refereed scientific journal is considered to be an accurate summary of the current state of knowledge. The latest such review was published in 1985. (8) It concluded that homosexual acts were involved in 25% to 40% of the cases of child molestation recorded in the scientific and forensic literature."

    http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?id=11002

    But Reisman points to figures from a 1991 population study by the U.S. Department of Commerce.

    It showed that 8 million girls were abused by age 18 by heterosexual men, a ratio of 1 victim to 11 adult men. However, 6-8 million boys were abused by age 18 by 1-2 million adult homosexuals, a ratio of 3-5 victims for every gay adult."



    These are the facts geer but I am not saying you are "wallowing in ignorance, dishonesty and bigotry, and scientific inquiry, logic and reason are helpless to correct this affliction." I don't resort to insulting you for your biased position. I think you owe me and this forum an apology for your unprovoked personal attack on me and this is against the rules of the forum but you seem to get away with it with impunity lately. But I will endeavor to correct you or any one else who does the same for now on. Thank you very much.
    I missed that. Until I read that the quote from the "Center of Inquiry" I did not understand this post. Mind you I did not read it too carefully, skipped over the Humanism, secularism thing as it all sounded too flaky for me.

    Looking back, yes the link to the "Center of Inquiry" was from me. As much like quacks they sound like what was really important was not what the "Center of Inquiry" was asking, even though it was a legitimate question.

    They asked an author a question on a report (on child molesters) used many times over by religious groups to vilify gays for being child molesters. He replied strenuously that his report was not about gays but about child molesters. I thought the post spoke for itself but I guess some could have missed it.

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