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  1. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotts View Post
    Control against control? Is this just a standard liberal buzzword with no meaning or..... well, WTF are you talking about???
    I'm talking about you being on a school board, controling curriculum and taxes. And then being against control by the state or Fed

  2. #67
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    Jesus Tex, the money, federal and state, given to local school districts for education is much different than OB trying to socialize the american workforce, install cap and trade, the takeover of GM and Chrysler. arbitrary co2 emission standards, and the obamacare expressway to socialized medicine. Never has our government spent money it doesn't have on this scale in peacetime. The massive increase in federal debt to fund these programs will soak up trillions in capital, crowding out financial resources that otherwise would be available to private enterprise. If all this isn't socialism, it's a good imitation
    My doctor gave me six months to live, but when I couldn't pay the bill he gave me six months more.
    Walter Matthau

  3. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotts View Post
    Jesus Tex, the money, federal and state, given to local school districts for education is much different than OB trying to socialize the american workforce, install cap and trade, the takeover of GM and Chrysler. arbitrary co2 emission standards, and the obamacare expressway to socialized medicine. Never has our government spent money it doesn't have on this scale in peacetime. The massive increase in federal debt to fund these programs will soak up trillions in capital, crowding out financial resources that otherwise would be available to private enterprise. If all this isn't socialism, it's a good imitation
    well spotts, I have no children in school , yet the bulk of my property taxes are for education, how is that not socialism?

  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotts View Post
    Jesus Tex, the money, federal and state, given to local school districts for education is much different than OB trying to socialize the american workforce, install cap and trade, the takeover of GM and Chrysler. arbitrary co2 emission standards, and the obamacare expressway to socialized medicine. Never has our government spent money it doesn't have on this scale in peacetime. The massive increase in federal debt to fund these programs will soak up trillions in capital, crowding out financial resources that otherwise would be available to private enterprise. If all this isn't socialism, it's a good imitation
    How is it different. There are private schools but the majority of kids go to socialist school, or public school. Public schools are run by unions and can influence the ideas of kids. But despite this many right wingers and conservatives use public schools and they do so against there "moral" beliefs for one reason. IT'S FREE! So keep on with the selfrightous junk about welfare receipeints and people feeding off the government. Nobody can get thier head out of it long enought to see reality, people are all the same conservative and liberals, but most people will be real proud of thier idealogy and carry it around on display for all to see, but they rarely actually live it. I wish we could all call off the charades and act like adults and quit being puppets of a system gone crazy. Politicians of both sides sell us out at every chance they get and we fight over BS.

  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    well spotts, I have no children in school , yet the bulk of my property taxes are for education, how is that not socialism?
    What would happen to your homes resale value if your county/city dropped public schools? You house is worth more because there are public schools, the better the schools are rated the more your house is worth. So it's socialism with a free market twist. I don't hear anyone wanting to abolish public schools, kind of wierd since socialism and this President are said to be so very dangerous. The word society and socialsim have the same root. Is it ok that we have a society? Can you have one witout there being some aspect of socialism?

  6. #71
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    [QUOTE=Pneuma;4462872]
    I don't hear anyone wanting to abolish public schools, [quote]

    Because we havent discussed it yet.....

    The state of Utah has just passed a landmark educational voucher program under which every family, depending on its income, will be reimbursed between $500 and $3,000 per child for annual tuition paid to the private school of their choice.

    This will now give parents of modest means options that the well-to-do have long enjoyed. Their school-age children will no longer be a captive audience. Parents will be empowered as educational consumers, giving them choices and leverage consumers enjoy in all other spheres of our market economy. They'll be free to choose the educational model they believe best fits the unique needs of their children, and will be freed from the bureaucracy and politics of government-delivered education.

    Predictably, the educratic establishment is in full counterattack. The Utah teachers' union has launched a campaign to repeal the new law. If that fails, they'll try their luck in court. Their resistance is bred of desperation.

    First, the union's survival is at stake. Under a voucher system, education is still publicly financed through taxpayer dollars. That doesn't change. But what does is the union's monopoly to deliver publicly funded education exclusively in government schools. Under a voucher system, competition would bloom.

    Second, there's the ideological opposition to competition and free choice in education. The educratic establishment - from administrators, to the teachers' colleges that staff the schools, to the unions that run them and the school boards they elect - is liberal to its core.

    They covet their power to set the agenda, to dictate subject matter and educational techniques, to influence impressionable young minds and mold the next generation of liberal activists. They've turned their government schools into laboratories for social engineering, downgrading basic academics and old-fashioned notions of American exceptionalism, patriotism and individualism in favor of collectivism, political correctness, diversity, environmentalism, feminism, and delusional self-esteem. They have a death grip on these schools that they're loath to release.

    As the United States falls further behind other nations in the math and science proficiency of students, and as the customer service rep on the other end of your telephone - somewhere in India - speaks better English than millions of American high school graduates, it's increasingly obvious that something's terribly wrong with public education in this country.

    Yet educrats circle their wagons around the status quo. Tanya Clay House of the ultra-liberal People for the American Way recently declared, "We've never seen a shred of credible evidence that shows school vouchers actually help students learn. While all public schools must demonstrate success under No Child Left Behind, private schools are not held to the same level of accountability for their performance."

    Nonsense. Private schools are held to account in the most effective way possible - they're accountable to their customers who are free to take their business elsewhere if they're not satisfied. All the evidence you need for vouchers is that parents who have used them to escape the government school monopoly fight to keep them.

    Then, Clay House added this gem: "Every child deserves an excellent education, not just those who can get admitted to a private school." I wonder if she realizes how self-contradictory that statement is. She's acknowledging that private schools provide educational excellence and that kids who are stuck in government schools are denied that! Does she suppose that wealthy parents who pay a premium to send their kids to private schools (without "a shred of evidence that they help students learn") are stupid?

    Celebrating passage of the Utah voucher law, Andrew Coulson of the Cato Institute wrote in The American Spectator: "Salt Lake City's legislation could very well become the domino that tips all other states into the camp of educational freedom." Wouldn't it be great if Colorado had the wisdom and courage to be next?
    My doctor gave me six months to live, but when I couldn't pay the bill he gave me six months more.
    Walter Matthau

  7. #72
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    Getting a $3,000 voucher from the government is not welfare or socialsim becuase_____________ I'll let you fill in the blank.

    What kind of private school can you get for $3,000? Preschool cost me 2400.

  8. #73
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    Um, I dont live in DC, your number would surely be higher, Consult your local school dist. and see. It is in the budget and it is socialized education. I dont agree with it and I will fight against any more programs going that way.
    My doctor gave me six months to live, but when I couldn't pay the bill he gave me six months more.
    Walter Matthau

  9. #74
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    I don't live in DC either, just within ten miles of it in Virginia.

    The point is we all live in a community, sort of like communism right? Commuinity comminism basically the same root. We like things like public schools, roads and police. These things make our community better and we all are willing to pay to have them. We have a communistic streak.

    We all also like socialism because we like our society. We like baseball football and nascar. We like our holidays that celebrate our common heritage. We prefer everyone to be english speaking, allowing other languages to take hold based on popularity is something that otherwise free market folk really hate. Your average blue blooded republican can pound the table about free markets and still be more than a little miffed when Honeywell prints instructions in Spanish and so miffed they might call for a law, protecting their society/socialism.

    All I'm saying is this this foul cried over the idea of socialism is sort of rediculous if you can look at it without all the emotional baggage hepaed on you by the Rush Limbaugh's of the world. If your parroting this fear mongering stuff you got to ask who sold you that bag of doodoo and why did you bite so hard?

    What got me interested in this threead is you said you kept your kid home to avoid a speech, home from the same place that they will learn about drinking drugs and sex. You can;t hide them from these things you have to teach them, but you didn't use teaching to handle Obama, you used hiding. That's crazy from where I sit. You got to ask yourself what's got you acting so crazy?

  10. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pneuma View Post
    I don't live in DC either, just within ten miles of it in Virginia.

    The point is we all live in a community, sort of like communism right? Commuinity comminism basically the same root. We like things like public schools, roads and police. These things make our community better and we all are willing to pay to have them. We have a communistic streak.

    We all also like socialism because we like our society. We like baseball football and nascar. We like our holidays that celebrate our common heritage. We prefer everyone to be english speaking, allowing other languages to take hold based on popularity is something that otherwise free market folk really hate. Your average blue blooded republican can pound the table about free markets and still be more than a little miffed when Honeywell prints instructions in Spanish and so miffed they might call for a law, protecting their society/socialism.

    All I'm saying is this this foul cried over the idea of socialism is sort of rediculous if you can look at it without all the emotional baggage hepaed on you by the Rush Limbaugh's of the world. If your parroting this fear mongering stuff you got to ask who sold you that bag of doodoo and why did you bite so hard?

    What got me interested in this threead is you said you kept your kid home to avoid a speech, home from the same place that they will learn about drinking drugs and sex. You can;t hide them from these things you have to teach them, but you didn't use teaching to handle Obama, you used hiding. That's crazy from where I sit. You got to ask yourself what's got you acting so crazy?
    Yea, you might need to double up on your Prozak & cut the caffine by half.

  11. #76
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    Just a few things about the voucher issue.

    My better half attended a Catholic High School, not the best, but a school that is highly rated academically. I don't know what the tuition and fees came to in her day but now you are looking at around $12,000 per year. This gets you low teacher to student ratios, teachers with higher academic credentials, highly structured academic programs, advanced academic curriculums, and the cachet of having graduated from a well regarded private school which college admissions officers covet.

    Certainly there are private schools with lower tuitions and fees, but three grand is not going to buy you much more than what a public school provides. Add to that the fact that private schools are not obligated to admit every student that applies and the sheen of a voucher program wears off quickly.

    That being said, public schools, given the scope of their mission and the limitations imposed, do a remarkable job educating a majority of students.

    One other thing, teachers in the public school systems, are for the most part dedicated, hardworking individuals who on a daily basis face parent and student apathy, lack of sufficient teaching materials and textbooks, imbicilic demands from incompetent school boards, personal safety issues and yet manage to impart education to those willing to accept it.

    I have a number of friends and acquaitances who have spent their entire careers in the education field and with one lone exception, they tend towards the conservative side.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

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  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by the dangling wrangler View Post
    Yea, you might need to double up on your Prozak & cut the caffine by half.
    You might want to try and disguise your struck nerve a little better and google some funnier insults.

  13. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pneuma View Post
    I don't live in DC either, just within ten miles of it in Virginia.

    The point is we all live in a community, sort of like communism right? Commuinity comminism basically the same root. We like things like public schools, roads and police. These things make our community better and we all are willing to pay to have them. We have a communistic streak.

    We all also like socialism because we like our society. We like baseball football and nascar. We like our holidays that celebrate our common heritage. We prefer everyone to be english speaking, allowing other languages to take hold based on popularity is something that otherwise free market folk really hate. Your average blue blooded republican can pound the table about free markets and still be more than a little miffed when Honeywell prints instructions in Spanish and so miffed they might call for a law, protecting their society/socialism.

    All I'm saying is this this foul cried over the idea of socialism is sort of rediculous if you can look at it without all the emotional baggage hepaed on you by the Rush Limbaugh's of the world. If your parroting this fear mongering stuff you got to ask who sold you that bag of doodoo and why did you bite so hard?

    What got me interested in this threead is you said you kept your kid home to avoid a speech, home from the same place that they will learn about drinking drugs and sex. You can;t hide them from these things you have to teach them, but you didn't use teaching to handle Obama, you used hiding. That's crazy from where I sit. You got to ask yourself what's got you acting so crazy?
    Well said pneuma. Bravo.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

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