Guess what?

[whec720]

so,we agree?

and will continue to go up. whats your point. The President has nothing to do with it.

No. you say the President has nothing to do with it, when, infact, he does.

[acmanko]

No. you say the President has nothing to do with it, when, infact, he does.

in essence, what you say is that since the damn broke on Bush's watch, then he is responsible. Obama is trying to plug the leak.

[printer2]

Not Clinton, however he did expand it and further helped it along. What is "it"?

NAFTA

You can thank Bush Sr and a Democrat controlled Congress, at that time, for that. IMO, NAFTA killed any chance of the USA to ever gain back some of it's past manufacturing dominance.

And yep, that is coming from a conservative.

That is when the business environment changed. Not much noise in the U.S. media about it, the people did not really care enough what it was about. Big news north of the border because we were giving up some of our sovereignty (mainly over our energy supply) to have clear trading rules.

Plants closed up here (I would have been able to retire in six years if they did not mess with things) and some work moved down to the U.S. but more to Mexico. Closer to markets, bs like that. U.S. jobs transfered to Mexico for the cheap labor. Once companies realized that they did not have to manufacture in the U.S. (and Canada) to sell here they started to move industries to third world countries because of labor costs and lack of environmental rules.

[whec720]

That is when the business environment changed. Not much noise in the U.S. media about it, the people did not really care enough what it was about. Big news north of the border because we were giving up some of our sovereignty (mainly over our energy supply) to have clear trading rules.

Plants closed up here (I would have been able to retire in six years if they did not mess with things) and some work moved down to the U.S. but more to Mexico. Closer to markets, bs like that. U.S. jobs transfered to Mexico for the cheap labor. Once companies realized that they did not have to manufacture in the U.S. (and Canada) to sell here they started to move industries to third world countries because of labor costs and lack of environmental rules.

I agree with you on this one, printer. NAFTA was and still is bad news. Sadly, it won't go away but will continue to grow. Both political parties here, support it's growth, whether they'll admit to it or not.

[whec720]

in essence, what you say is that since the damn broke on Bush's watch, then he is responsible. Obama is trying to plug the leak.

Nope. Look at the federal debt. As usual, your one sided attempts at blame fall short.

[printer2]

I agree with you on this one, printer. NAFTA was and still is bad news. Sadly, it won't go away but will continue to grow. Both political parties here, support it's growth, whether they'll admit to it or not.

While there were winners and losers because of it but the full effect was artificially masked by the tech and housing bubble. The higher ups forgot our wealth was made by manufacturing, taking something of lesser value and turning it into something worth more.

China's people got wealthier in the same way we had and they now have the manufacturing expertise we once had. We may have to lower our standard of living to get the manufacturing back but I doubt many people would go for that.

[whec720]

While there were winners and losers because of it but the full effect was artificially masked by the tech and housing bubble. The higher ups forgot our wealth was made by manufacturing, taking something of lesser value and turning it into something worth more.

China's people got wealthier in the same way we had and they now have the manufacturing expertise we once had. We may have to lower our standard of living to get the manufacturing back but I doubt many people would go for that.

Dang, printer, we are on the same page again. We sure need our manufacturing base back. The question is, how do we go about it? The US is trapped in debt owed to China, Japan and others.
A dip in our standard of living won't be enough to climb out of this debt.

[acmanko]

Dang, printer, we are on the same page again. We sure need our manufacturing base back. The question is, how do we go about it? The US is trapped in debt owed to China, Japan and others.
A dip in our standard of living won't be enough to climb out of this debt.

we never lost our manufacturing base. The USof A is the largest manufacturing country on the planet. What we have done is slowed down on buying. This is where China is running scared, if we don't buy their stuff, they lose


http://www.globalinsight.com/Perspec...etail13718.htm

[whec720]

we never lost our manufacturing base. The USof A is the largest manufacturing country on the planet. What we have done is slowed down on buying. This is where China is running scared, if we don't buy their stuff, they lose

Tell that to the folks in Michigan. Ac, if you can't see the decline in our manufacting base, you need to follow your own advice in the bumper sticker thread.

[acmanko]

Tell that to the folks in Michigan. Ac, if you can't see the decline in our manufacting base, you need to follow your own advice in the bumper sticker thread.

Michigan reaped what Michigan sowed, for years they refused to place assembly lines in the South. now the southern states are taking them to the woodshed. They should have thought about what was happening earlier

[whec720]

Michigan reaped what Michigan sowed, for years they refused to place assembly lines in the South. now the southern states are taking them to the woodshed. They should have thought about what was happening earlier

Can't argru with you there. However, we are hurting too, not just China. Everything is linked.
For the United States to remain strong, we need to make things. We need our manufacturing base back. The service industry lie, is just that, a lie.

[printer2]

Can't argru with you there. However, we are hurting too, not just China. Everything is linked.
For the United States to remain strong, we need to make things. We need our manufacturing base back. The service industry lie, is just that, a lie.

Damn, finally a serious discussion. I wish I could bounce some ideas off you but I am tiling my bathroom right now so I can not play. Hope to get back later.

[whec720]

Damn, finally a serious discussion. I wish I could bounce some ideas off you but I am tiling my bathroom right now so I can not play. Hope to get back later.

Ahhh bathroom remodeling.....better you than me..lol

I should be online tomorrow night. Talk to you then.