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Thread: Chiller Brands

  1. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Bay Area California
    Posts
    321
    Trane has always had a great product...
    Carrier Aquaforce chiller as of late have been good...
    Yorks in the smaller scroll package are agreeable...
    I am not sure on the York Latitude variable speed screw...

    The chiller i have my eye on now is the generation 3 Smardt air cooled chiller...
    They just got out of ARI certification testing and they are claiming iplvs in the 0.57 kw/ ton range (which is remarkable for an air cooled)...
    With the extended condenser option they have a fan package (which are all on vfds standard) that only go to 45 hz to keep the sound level down around 80 or so db...
    Liquid line recievers to ensure liquid to compressor motor cooling and sporlan exvs...
    Available 5 year warranty on the machine or just the oilless turbocor centrifugal compressors...
    Excellant for variable primary chilled water flow...

    i would highly recommend that there be a quality service company to partner up with if you consider this product especially for a critical load application as these units can be tricky if the technician is not familiar with the oil free technology...
    I also would not install in high ambient locals... keep it to areas that only get to 95-100 ambient...

    hang on to your wallet...

    i just priced a 125 ton unit and they were double the price of the trane... but i think when people take a close look at the energy savings and the sustainability, they will get more popular and the pricing should come down...

    If the utility company will give you 45K (0.16 cents/ KW process load) to install one of these guys and you have your energy savings on top of that... its eye opening...

    Chiller Rob

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas ,Texas
    Posts
    3,720
    Here`s another way of looking at it. Look at all the threads started in the chiller forum and see which manufacturer has the most problems.
    UA 100

    It takes three people to do anything around here. Two do the work, one explains to the crowd of people who showed up when they seen smoke and flames.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    357
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoodlistener View Post
    Here`s another way of looking at it. Look at all the threads started in the chiller forum and see which manufacturer has the most problems.
    True dat!!!
    Superheat, that must be REALLY hot.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    357
    We will be faced with the same decision in a few years. I don't really have a warm fuzzy feeling about any of the major players out there. I've seen them all do their thing and watched the good, the bad, and the ugly. What it boils down to is the reliability, support and parts in YOUR area. You will find this is not the same country wide. Good Carrier support in one area may be not so good in another. Same goes for Johnson and the big T. If you have good relationships with a certain distributor or good contacts with a certain manufacturer then go with that. Some machines are better at certain things than others too. Do your homework, ask people in your area what they think about so and so. Call up the mechanicals and ask them what they think and who they do buisness with. Call up your local engineering firms etc.
    Make an informed decision. Obviously Carrier has put a thorn in your side. Call them up too and tell them what you think, go to the top if you need to. It's the only way you will get any satisfaction.
    The way I look at it is if somebody pisses you off, give them a chance and if they still piss you off... well then it's time to piss on them!
    Superheat, that must be REALLY hot.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
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    2,011
    Quote Originally Posted by thegoodlistener View Post
    Here`s another way of looking at it. Look at all the threads started in the chiller forum and see which manufacturer has the most problems.
    That is a very unfair way to judge chillers or anything else in life....

    What if Trane is 90% of what is out at our accounts, it's only logical that 90% of the threads would be about Trane chillers. Doesn't mean they have the most problems.
    UA LU189

    10mm, because it's better than .45acp

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas ,Texas
    Posts
    3,720
    Quote Originally Posted by zw17 View Post
    That is a very unfair way to judge chillers or anything else in life....

    What if Trane is 90% of what is out at our accounts, it's only logical that 90% of the threads would be about Trane chillers. Doesn't mean they have the most problems.
    I never mention any manufacturer at all , but somehow you did. Look how the OP was investigating oil stains , screws, and strips of wire on the ground. Is that a better way of judging a brand? I can repair equipment and not leave alot of evidence too!

    What about the guys on this board that have 90% Carrier or 90% York etc?
    UA 100

    It takes three people to do anything around here. Two do the work, one explains to the crowd of people who showed up when they seen smoke and flames.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    366
    The question about which brand gives the best service.

    I can not say that it is 100% accurate but I have found that government agencies with alot of resources tend to do audits on their equiptment.

    These are done by pro. companies that take into account % of equipt., age and the whole lot.

    If you have any connection to your local school system, or government maint. shops they will probably share an audit with you.

    I recently saw one that had been done on a school system with over 400 schools and I was happy with what brand came out on top.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    540
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy S. View Post
    What is well supported in one town may not be in another.

    Isn't R123 going away in a few years?
    R-123 isn't scheduled for phaseout until January 2030

    http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/..._phaseout.html

    Recently the japs version of AC/R News (JARN) interviewed Dr. Stephen Andersen of the EPA and his comments highlight the phaseout of R-134A prior to R-123. He points out that even though 123 has a greater ODP, it is a moot point because chillers using it are zero emission. With sufficient quantities being manufactured until 2030 and the fact that very little is lost during normal operation and maintenance, there will be plenty of 123 for years to come after 2030. In addition to that, the EPA will let manufacturers of 123 produce beyond the 2030 phaseout by using ODP unit credits gained by the conversion or decomissioning of R-11 chillers and destroying the R-11. For every two pounds of 11 destroyed, they can produce one pound of 123.

    I think Trane made the right gamble by sticking with R-123. They are now the sole manufacturers of a low pressure machine that will likely outlast a lot of the 134A machines being produced by York, Carrier and McQuay. Add to that the inherent efficiency advantage over 134A and it should give them dominance in the market.

    I wish I could attach the article here, but it's about 3mb in pdf format. If anyone wants it, let me know and I will email it to you.
    Low Pressure Forever!

    If you know heavy metal, you can work anywhere-Dave Andreson

    Anchors Aweigh my boys, Anchors Aweigh!
    Farewell to foreign shores, We sail at break of day. Through our last night on shore, Drink to the foam. Until we meet once more. Here's wishing you a happy voyage home!

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    UAE
    Posts
    15

    Chiller Brands

    It seems to me that this forum is dominated by Trane techs who believe they have or provide good service.
    If you look at the posts and then say who has the best chiller or the best service it most definately is NOT Trane.
    Firstly you do a disloyalty to The Trane company and secondly you show up your incompetance in servicing their equipment, by asking the most basic questions and any understanding of the equipment design.
    The other OEMs techs do not show up there in house problems so why do Trane techs? have such a problem of an open forum to discuss just about every discission which Trane adopt.
    The best chiller to buy is the one where you can obtain service support and the OEM will not run away from their product? AND now you can tell me how many OEMs have not done so

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Western Wa
    Posts
    1,838
    I had the local Y office refuse to give me a part number last winter.

    That certainly helps customer loyalty.
    God Bless our Veterans

    God Bless the USA

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    UAE
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    15
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillerWisperer View Post
    R-123 isn't scheduled for phaseout until January 2030

    http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/..._phaseout.html

    Recently the japs version of AC/R News (JARN) interviewed Dr. Stephen Andersen of the EPA and his comments highlight the phaseout of R-134A prior to R-123. He points out that even though 123 has a greater ODP, it is a moot point because chillers using it are zero emission. With sufficient quantities being manufactured until 2030 and the fact that very little is lost during normal operation and maintenance, there will be plenty of 123 for years to come after 2030. In addition to that, the EPA will let manufacturers of 123 produce beyond the 2030 phaseout by using ODP unit credits gained by the conversion or decomissioning of R-11 chillers and destroying the R-11. For every two pounds of 11 destroyed, they can produce one pound of 123.

    I think Trane made the right gamble by sticking with R-123. They are now the sole manufacturers of a low pressure machine that will likely outlast a lot of the 134A machines being produced by York, Carrier and McQuay. Add to that the inherent efficiency advantage over 134A and it should give them dominance in the market.

    I wish I could attach the article here, but it's about 3mb in pdf format. If anyone wants it, let me know and I will email it to you.
    Are you for real or what if you understand the realty you would know that the the is that for ever conversion the reality was R 12 AND R11 being released to atmosphere. This is why every manufacturer pushed for containment
    If you do your research you will understand the associated costs of gettinmg rid of these refrigerants.
    Trane of course made the right discission R 123 IS the most efficient refrigerant, odp, gwp and atmospheric life is way below R 134a

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Seattle Area
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by ChillerWisperer View Post

    I wish I could attach the article here, but it's about 3mb in pdf format. If anyone wants it, let me know and I will email it to you.
    I'd really like to see that article if you don't mind sending it.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,350
    Quote Originally Posted by chiller rob View Post
    Trane has always had a great product...
    Carrier Aquaforce chiller as of late have been good...
    Yorks in the smaller scroll package are agreeable...
    I am not sure on the York Latitude variable speed screw...

    The chiller i have my eye on now is the generation 3 Smardt air cooled chiller...
    They just got out of ARI certification testing and they are claiming iplvs in the 0.57 kw/ ton range (which is remarkable for an air cooled)...
    With the extended condenser option they have a fan package (which are all on vfds standard) that only go to 45 hz to keep the sound level down around 80 or so db...
    Liquid line recievers to ensure liquid to compressor motor cooling and sporlan exvs...
    Available 5 year warranty on the machine or just the oilless turbocor centrifugal compressors...
    Excellant for variable primary chilled water flow...

    i would highly recommend that there be a quality service company to partner up with if you consider this product especially for a critical load application as these units can be tricky if the technician is not familiar with the oil free technology...
    I also would not install in high ambient locals... keep it to areas that only get to 95-100 ambient...

    hang on to your wallet...

    i just priced a 125 ton unit and they were double the price of the trane... but i think when people take a close look at the energy savings and the sustainability, they will get more popular and the pricing should come down...

    If the utility company will give you 45K (0.16 cents/ KW process load) to install one of these guys and you have your energy savings on top of that... its eye opening...

    Chiller Rob
    I have a data center with 2 240ton, air cooler Smardt Chillers, and the energy savings are amazing. They use 1/2 of the kw as the Carriers and do more work. I would say make sure you get the Sporlan valves. You also need to have one of their guys commision it, it makes a big difference.
    I STARTED WITH NOTHING, AND I STILL HAVE MOST OF IT!

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