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  1. #14
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    does anyone have a piping diagram of the Enviro3 they can share?? We dont see any of these in the south, at least that I know of.

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eng&tech View Post
    does anyone have a piping diagram of the Enviro3 they can share?? We dont see any of these in the south, at least that I know of.
    See Section 26......
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #16
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  4. #17
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    I'm glad I saved a copy before Tyler's recent demise. Hill/Phoenix apparently dropped it from their Tyler on-line literature collection.

    It's surprising eng&tech didn't have it...since he works for H/P.

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eng&tech View Post
    does anyone have a piping diagram of the Enviro3 they can share?? We dont see any of these in the south, at least that I know of.
    here ya go...



    Mike
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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    I'm glad I saved a copy before Tyler's recent demise. Hill/Phoenix apparently dropped it from their Tyler on-line literature collection.

    It's surprising eng&tech didn't have it...since he works for H/P.
    I think i have a hard copy of that book, I didn't look through the whole pdf yet but i think it's the same as the book I have that only shows the original Envirouured that uses mechanical valves for operation, I'll take another look.
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  7. #20
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    Dec 2006
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    Thanks for the diagram, I hope to see one of these next month when Im up in Minnesota (RSES Conference) . I'm not sure I understand how it saves refrgerant, I keep reading in the sale lit. that it saves up to 35% on refrgerant. But it looks to me that we are just stacking refrigerant in the condensor, running all the condensor fans to keep the head down and as long as the ambient is below 60F were good to go. Once the amibiet goes up we energize the inlet solenoild and put the refrigerant back into the reciever?? I guess thats why we dont have them in the south. Im not trying to be a homer (HP) I would just like to understand it more from a technical stand point.

  8. #21
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    Cedar Rapids, IA
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    Quote Originally Posted by eng&tech View Post
    Thanks for the diagram, I hope to see one of these next month when Im up in Minnesota (RSES Conference) . I'm not sure I understand how it saves refrgerant, I keep reading in the sale lit. that it saves up to 35% on refrgerant. But it looks to me that we are just stacking refrigerant in the condensor, running all the condensor fans to keep the head down and as long as the ambient is below 60F were good to go. Once the amibiet goes up we energize the inlet solenoild and put the refrigerant back into the reciever?? I guess thats why we dont have them in the south. Im not trying to be a homer (HP) I would just like to understand it more from a technical stand point.
    My understanding is that whenever a compressor is running refrigerant is removed from the receiver via a capillary tube and enters the main loop at the suction manifold. Under normal circumstances this added refrigerant increases subcooling and eventually head pressure until the enviroguard control returns some refrigerant to the receiver. In the event of a leak the length of time between the operation of the valve to return refrigerant becomes longer and theoretically an alarm can be sounded if the time between operation of this valve exceeds a certain value, typically 6 hours. In practice here in Iowa it is possible to go from 70 degrees ambient to 20 degrees in 6 hours so we can get false alarms from this change in temp. as it may require 6 hours of feed to get the condenser flooded appropriately for the temp. The system also requires that the condenser be 10 feet above the receiver, which is often overlooked when the installation is made.

    The refrigerant savings is based on an assumption that in a normal system a leak will not be detected until it triggers a low receiver alarm. And in warmer weather you may lose a significant amount of refrigerant from the receiver before this happens.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by eng&tech View Post
    Im not trying to be a homer (HP) I would just like to understand it more from a technical stand point.
    Does HP have anything on them at all???? Here's a pic of a 2006 HP rack, split header running Enviroguard III Again just like the Kysor i started this thread off with and ones like this Hill, it's like everybody does it but only Tyler names it. I guss it could be that copyright stuff and people from hill and kysor just build what the custome tells them to. I'll have to check the HP binder that is in that comp room to see if there's any write up on it. The Kysor book that came with the other rack does not say anything on it.

    Mike

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  10. #23
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    Mar 2012
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    Sandy Springs ,Ga
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    kysor warren enviroguard

    Greetings all , i recently participated in a small retrofit on a kysor warren rack . This is a glycol system and i was there to replace old style sporlan electronic valves used for the subcoolers and chillers per sporlan to a new style valve .. One of the issues that came up was satisfying the envirogaurd #s to assure proper refrigerant levels.This system uses a micro therm controller ... According to ksyor rep i was working with 2 things were being looked at reciever % and enviroguard #s , they want enviroguard @ 10 and depending on ambient reciever level ie;80-30 deg 35% . It should be noted that prior to this revelation all cases at temp no flashing at site glass etc ... i was instructed to add a couple hundred lbs each rack to meet above #s ... yes i leak check store none found ... that being said Ksyor couldn't give me a direct answer on how enviroguard works or point me to some definitive literature.... any insight would be greatly appreciated i would really like to understand system... thanx in advance .

  11. #24
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    Sep 2008
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    Cedar Rapids, IA
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdlaw View Post
    Greetings all , i recently participated in a small retrofit on a kysor warren rack . This is a glycol system and i was there to replace old style sporlan electronic valves used for the subcoolers and chillers per sporlan to a new style valve .. One of the issues that came up was satisfying the envirogaurd #s to assure proper refrigerant levels.This system uses a micro therm controller ... According to ksyor rep i was working with 2 things were being looked at reciever % and enviroguard #s , they want enviroguard @ 10 and depending on ambient reciever level ie;80-30 deg 35% . It should be noted that prior to this revelation all cases at temp no flashing at site glass etc ... i was instructed to add a couple hundred lbs each rack to meet above #s ... yes i leak check store none found ... that being said Ksyor couldn't give me a direct answer on how enviroguard works or point me to some definitive literature.... any insight would be greatly appreciated i would really like to understand system... thanx in advance .
    I had to retrofit an enviroguard rack from a Johnson Controls board to CPC. Had to enter a program in CPC's einstein to handle the enviroguard. Whenever a compressor is running, refrigerant is bled back via a capillary from the receiver to the condenser loop. The receiver is not part of the condenser loop normally. (ie refrigerant bypasses it.) This gradually lowers the receiver level and increases subcooling. When subcooling exceeds 15 degrees valves are opened to rapidly remove refrigerant from the condenser and return it to the receiver. This must happen at least every 6 hours or an alarm is generated. The idea is that if you do not have to regularly return refrigerant to the receiver you must be losing it somewhere. In practice if you have a sudden drop in temperature over 6 hours the system will nuisance alarm as it can't flood the condenser fast enough. Also design spec usually calls for the condenser to be 15 ft higher than the rack which not all installations are. I had some racks where 5 degree subcooling was adequate. A longer delay on the alarm is usually a good idea, otherwise the store starts ignoring it. The 80-30 deg 35% is a recommendation for initial charge. Sounds like they wanted 10 degree subcooling for the return to receiver setpoint.

  12. #25
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    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sandy Springs ,Ga
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    12
    thanx for the reply ... with cooler ambient temperatures approaching i want to have as much working knowledge as possible ... we have two glycol stores that have a combination of glycol and dx racks usining 507 refrigerant and enviroguard . Still learning any literature greatly appreciated .

  13. #26
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    florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdlaw View Post
    thanx for the reply ... with cooler ambient temperatures approaching i want to have as much working knowledge as possible ... we have two glycol stores that have a combination of glycol and dx racks usining 507 refrigerant and enviroguard . Still learning any literature greatly appreciated .


    Lot's of good info here.

    http://www.hillphoenix.com/refrigera...second-nature/
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    Educational forums are open.

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