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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    9

    AC replacement options - review please?

    Hi. I've found this site very helpful over the past few weeks. I am hoping you can review my options and give me feedback.

    We are in PA, and have a two story, 1760 sq ft. House is 30 years old.

    Our AC unit is almost dead, so we've been discussing replacements with local HVAC companies. The current system is a Bryant, installed in summer 1984. From the model #, it's a 2.5 ton. I called Bryant and they confirmed that it's an 8 SEER. We've been satisfied with the cooling from it. We tend to have the AC on 70 degrees (up to 75 if we're not in the house) from around May through late September.

    Our forced air gas furnace is a York Diamond 90, Model P2URD16N07501A. Installed in 1995. It has a non-functioning Aprilayre unit model 550, we've been told the solenoid needs to be replaced. We keep the heat around 68 to 70.

    I've looked at the AHRI site and based on the furnace model #, nothing matches with it to qualify for the tax credit.

    Estimate A:
    Trane XR13, 2.5 ton, 4TTR3030A1000A, 1 stage, 13 SEER

    Estimate B:
    Trane XL15i, 2.5 ton, 4TTX5030A1000A, 1 stage, 15 SEER

    Estimate C-a:
    Carrier Performance, 2.5 ton, 24APA530, 1 stage 15 SEER

    Estimate C-b:
    The same Carrier above, with a heat pump. I don't have any model # for that.

    We're planning to have the Aprilayre repaired until there is a good reason to upgrade the existing 550 model to the current 600 model.

    Thanks!
    MJ

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,089
    Chances are on those you list at 15 SEER, you won't be getting that without the matched variable speed indoor unit. On the Trane 15i, you'll end up with 13.75 - 14.00 depending upon coil used with the Yorkie furnace. The Carrier is right at 14.00 with standard blower too. So from a $$ standpoint, not getting much savings paying the big bucks for the #2 and #3 bids. Getting nicer units is all.

    Depending upon location, probably is wise to look at a heat pump though same there, just a base unit 13/14 SEER is enough.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,504
    I agree with earlier post, to get the Fed's money, you'll probably have to replace the inside unit to qualify, and of course spend the extra bucks to do it. Even going with the HP and the 15 SEER, 12.5 EER qualfications will need the complete inside unit replaced. If someone proposes they can do otherwise, make them furnish you with the ARI match-up sheet before you purchase!! (Make them prove it!) Talk is cheap, matching not so cheap!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Knoxville
    Posts
    2
    It must be a matched system. The AHRI site will let you know if it is Tax Creditable or not. They have a yes box marked if so. I sold several brands this past year and never found one that was a outdoor unit and coil only using an existing furnace.

    You may also want to try other brands. The bigget single item in getting a good install is the dealer you are purchasing it from. It does not matter as much which brand. They all are pretty good these days. Be sure and check warranty also. Several offer "lifetime" replacement for no extra cost to you.

    Good luck.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    9
    Thanks for the feedback. Next question is this: Furnace is now 15 yrs old, so odds are we'll be replacing it within 5 years. At that point, if we buy the matching furnace will we be able to take advantage of the full SEER since the indoor unit will match?

    Unfortunately we aren't in a position to replace the furnace right now too.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,089
    If the credits are still going, you could get credit if you buy a 95% then. You won't get credit for an A/C purchase not made in that year.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    9
    Due to your comments, we decided that we really should consider replacing the 15 yr old furnace and trying to capitalize on the tax credit.

    We have these options
    1) Carrier
    Carrier 58MVC 80,000 Btu 95% efficient variable speed gas furnace
    Carrier 24APA530 – 2 1/2 ton 15 S.E.E.R. (410-A) air conditioner
    Infinity Control
    - Do I need to ask anything else?

    2) Trane
    XV95 TUH2B080A9V3VA 80,000 dual stage gas furnace
    XL15i 2.5 ton, 30,000 BTU
    Trane Comfort Control
    - Do I need to ask anything else?

    One quote is less by a considerable amount, and that's the one I'm leaning towards anyway.

    We have the option of choosing a Heat Pump for the Carrier. I'm torn.

    I'd appreciate your opinions.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    4,842
    As far as bang for your hard earned dollar, explore the York / Luxaire / Coleman line for some comparisons. Given your geographical location I would lean toward 95% furnaces as opposed to 80+. Since you are doing the entire system, HP is a nice upgrade with a savings potential from a fuel cost standpoint (depending on local utility costs). Make sure your contractors are doing load calculations so that the equipment chosen matches your requirements and since the tax credit is important to you, make sure that you are provided with the proper certificate for the system you go with.
    A good HVAC tech knows how, an educated HVAC tech knows why!

    DEM


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by mdd_pa View Post
    Due to your comments, we decided that we really should consider replacing the 15 yr old furnace and trying to capitalize on the tax credit.

    We have these options
    1) Carrier
    Carrier 58MVC 80,000 Btu 95% efficient variable speed gas furnace
    Carrier 24APA530 – 2 1/2 ton 15 S.E.E.R. (410-A) air conditioner
    Infinity Control
    - Do I need to ask anything else?


    We have the option of choosing a Heat Pump for the Carrier. I'm torn.

    I'd appreciate your opinions.
    Here's what I just put in. I based this choice a lot on info I gathered from here. Unless you're in the Bradford ice box, the heat pump hybrid option will work for you.

    Carrier 58MVC ICS Infinity variable speed, multi stage furnace
    Carrier 25HPA Performance Heat Pump (Comunicates w/Infinity Controller) Your quote is for Performance A/C only
    Tin plated indoor coil
    4" Media Filter Box
    Infinity Control

    It is a great hybrid system for me. Everything that was said about it controlling humidity is true. I have the control set at 50% humidity and the the variable speed blower will run real slow to bring the humidity down, then will ramp up to cool to set point.

    The Infinity control is amazing. Upon initial startup it automatically recognized all the equipment. I have it set to adjust the temp 4 times a day depending on our schedule. It begins adjusting to the next set point 90 minutes in advance so it doesn't have to do an abrupt temp change.

    You can set it to run the heat pump down to a certain outside temp until it becomes less efficient than running the gas furnace. You can also lockout the gas furnace above a certain temperature so you can take advantage of the heat pump's efficiency. The Performance 15 HP has an outside temp sensor built in so no need to add on a seperate OAT sensor.

    The controller will also automatically switch from heat to cool during transitional seasons in the spring and fall. It has a set waiting period and a default temp difference so it doesn't switch back and forth too much.

    Even in your area, I would consider the heat pump option instead of A/C only with the gas furnace. I would request the "H" model Performance 15 HP because it has better heating performance numbers (HSPF) vs. "A" model w/o much compromise on SEER rating. This is better for colder climates.

    If you hurry, I think there are still Carrier rebates in effect on top of the tax credit.

    EDIT: I forgot to add how much quieter the system is than our old Rheem system. Inside and out it is whisper quiet compared to the old system.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by mdd_pa View Post
    Due to your comments, we decided that we really should consider replacing the 15 yr old furnace and trying to capitalize on the tax credit.

    We have these options
    1) Carrier
    Carrier 58MVC 80,000 Btu 95% efficient variable speed gas furnace
    Carrier 24APA530 2 1/2 ton 15 S.E.E.R. (410-A) air conditioner
    Infinity Control
    - Do I need to ask anything else?

    2) Trane
    XV95 TUH2B080A9V3VA 80,000 dual stage gas furnace
    XL15i 2.5 ton, 30,000 BTU
    Trane Comfort Control
    - Do I need to ask anything else?

    One quote is less by a considerable amount, and that's the one I'm leaning towards anyway.

    We have the option of choosing a Heat Pump for the Carrier. I'm torn.

    I'd appreciate your opinions.
    Both systems you noted are excellent. If you're trying to save upfront investment $$ and still acheive the efficiency, tax credit, and PECO rebate.....you don't necessarily need the Trane XLi....as the XR will suffice (Same tonnage and efficiency...and similar warranty).

    Also, the State of PA has a rebate program that was suspended in early Aug....but if/when Harrisburg gets their budget finalized that program may get funded again....and you'd get more $$ for either system above, or the one I noted.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by teaysvalley View Post

    Even in your area, I would consider the heat pump option instead of A/C only with the gas furnace. I would request the "H" model Performance 15 HP because it has better heating performance numbers (HSPF) vs. "A" model w/o much compromise on SEER rating. This is better for colder climates.
    This is for Carrier:

    I received a quote on the Heat pump option as 25HPA530, which is a SEER of 14.5 and a HSPF of 8.4

    Is that what you're talking about?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by mdd_pa View Post
    This is for Carrier:

    I received a quote on the Heat pump option as 25HPA530, which is a SEER of 14.5 and a HSPF of 8.4

    Is that what you're talking about?
    The full model number of the heat pump tells you.

    I did a quick check of AHRI numbers for you, here's the difference and for you it may mean qualifying or not qualifying for the tax credit. This is just one example for your sizes.

    HP - 25HPA530"A"30
    Furnace 58MVC080-14
    Coil - CNPV*3621A
    AHRI#1393182
    EER - 12.5
    SEER - 15.5
    HSPF - 8.3
    Tax Credit - NO

    HP - 25HPA530"H"30
    Everything else the same as above
    AHRI#1392794
    EER - 12.5
    SEER - 15.0
    HSPF - 8.5
    Tax Credit - YES

    I see where some combinations with a certain coil got 14.5 and 8.4. I had to specifically ask for the model of heat pump that I wanted. They quoted the A model and frankly probably didn't know a different model existed until I showed them. I've found, at least around here, you have to do your own home work to get something that will get the tax credit. Your dealer should work with you in picking the right coil, HP and furnace combo that fits your situation.

    They should do the calculations also to make sure you have the right size units.
    Last edited by teaysvalley; 08-18-2009 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Info

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas via Chicago Area via Straight Up from There on Lake Superior
    Posts
    1,411
    Quote Originally Posted by mdd_pa View Post
    ... which is a SEER of 14.5 and a HSPF of 8.4

    ...
    Not sure from all of the posts if you understand the Energy Star tax credit criteria since the above fails two of them, but thought I would point them out. See Air Source Heat Pump: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...ts.tx_index#c3

    Specifically:

    Split Systems:
    HSPF >= 8.5
    EER >= 12.5
    SEER >= 15

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