Carrier Heat Pump and Air Handler Matching

[Sheridan]

I'm a homeowner in southwestern Pennsylvania looking to replace a Goodman 2.5 Ton 10 SEER heat pump from 1992. I got a load calc from a dealer who used the Elite Software load calculator that recommends 3.06 tons for a 98%/2% split.

We only have electric service so this is paired with an electric furnace.

I'm leaning towards a Carrier Performance series with the Edge Thermostat but I'm looking for advice on valid matching equipment.

Proposal 1 for a 3 Ton 15.5 SEER 9 HSPF system:
Heat Pump: 25HPA536H005
Air Handler: FV4BNF005
Electric Heater: KFCEH3201F20

Proposal 2 for a 3 Ton 15 SEER 8.6 HSPF system:
Heat Pump: 25HPA536A003
Air Handler: FV4ABNF003000
Electric Heater: KFCEH3101C15

I've been trying to piece together information and it looks like the equipment in Proposal 1 is better, but I'm questioning the compatibility of the 3 Ton Heat Pump and the 5 Ton air handler. Is this okay? What are the possible side effects? It seems to make sense to get the FV4 as the variable speed fan to help the electric costs, I just want to get the right one.

[dash]

# 1 meets the criteria for the ,up to$1500.00 federal tax credit,# 2 doesn't.

That isn't a 5 ton air handler,it's max at 4 tons.

It is matched and rated,does an excellent job here in steamy Florida. It has a "wide range " TXV to control refrigerant flow,and a variable speed motor to control the cfms(air flow).

I'd at least get a price on the Infinity air handler and control.

[tigerdunes]

proposal #1

1169031 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536H30 FV4BN(B,F)005 36000 13.00 15.50 36000 9.00 21800

you get a little better heating eff with the larger air handler. see below.

1125695 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536H30 FV4BNB006 36000 13.00 16.00 36000 9.30 21800

of course, both qualify for the tax credit.

ductwork should be evaluated since you are going up in size.

you do want the Carrier thermidistat with either of these systems.

IMO

[dash]

proposal #1

1169031 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536H30 FV4BN(B,F)005 36000 13.00 15.50 36000 9.00 21800

you get a little better heating eff with the larger air handler. see below.

1125695 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA536H30 FV4BNB006 36000 13.00 16.00 36000 9.30 21800

of course, both qualify for the tax credit.

ductwork should be evaluated since you are going up in size.

you do want the Carrier thermidistat with either of these systems.

IMO

If you look closely ,you'll see you didn't use the same model numbers that were posted, proposal 2 doesn't qualify for the tax credit.

[Sheridan]

Thank you both for the quick feedback. I was told that the second system would qualify at 15 SEER, 12.5 EER and 8.8 HSPF so I'm glad I checked.

In regards to some of the comments:

Ductwork Evaluation:

What else should I expect from the dealer considering the ductwork evaluation? They measured it when they were taking the measurements near the air handler and they checked the insulation around the portion that runs through the garage. Is there anything specific to look for in the Elite Software load calcs or is there another evaluation that is typically done?

Infinity System:

We did get a quote on the Infinity. The system was a 17.8 SEER, 13 EER and 9.2 HSPF (25HNA936 heat pump and FV4 air handler with the Inifinity Control). The two stage sounded nice for comfort but we had a hard time quantifying the energy savings. It was explained to me that it could be running a lot at the first stage. None of the dealers we've dealt with has provided any specific information comparing the total run times between the series, but I thought that it would be hard to do so since it probably depends on temp, humidity and our settings. The op cost spreadsheet I found on the Energy Star website didn't factor in a 2 stage versus a 1 stage, so I just compared the SEER and HSPF. With us only expecting to be in this house for another 10 years, it didn't look like we'd make up the price difference.

In addition, we haven't had any big complaints about the comfort of the current system (in about 2 years) in the home. We have a 2 story house and a split basement/garage. The garage takes up about 60% of the area and is unheated. We still don't use all of the rooms on the 2nd floor regularly, but we notice that there is a slight temperature difference in the bedroom upstairs. It will sometimes get noticeably warmer before we hear the cooling kick back on. We just found out that having the fan run continuously may help that?

The Infinity Control did look pretty cool, but I'm also happy with the Edge Programmable Thermostat with the Performace Series.

[dash]

Look closely at each model number.

25HPA536"H"005

25HPA536A005


The one with the "H" is built specically to qualify,so they could have given you the wrong number,this only applies to the 3 ton size in the perfromance series.

Of course it must be matched to an air handler or coil ,some air handlers and coils may not qualify.

[Sheridan]

I plan to follow up on that, though I am leaning towards system 1 anyway. The "A" model was listed in an email and the official quote paperwork that I have. But he was pretty adamant that he was planning to sell a system that would qualify, so it was probably just an oversight.

[Sheridan]

Does anyone have any advice on the ductwork evaluation (if any) I'd need for upgrading from the 2.5 ton Goodman to the 3 Ton Carrier system? (25HPA536H005 and FV4BNF005)

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the Infinity comparison details we've done against the Performance system #1?

Thanks again.

[dash]

They could test the ESP(eternal static pressure ) of the duct system,think resistance to air flow,of the existing system,to determine if modification is needed.

Or they could check duct sizes and layout ,use Man. D to determine if changes are needed.


Infinity is more about comfort then just the SEER and savings.

Lower indoor humidity in cooling allows a higher indoor temp., which adds to the savings as well.

[Sheridan]

We'll talk with the dealer again about the Infinity and the duct evaluation. We did mention that we'd like the noise of the air from the vents to be quieter if possible. We were told that even with the increase of 2.5 to 3 Ton, the variable speed fan with this Performance system would only operate at the speed that it needed to achieve the settings and wouldn't always just blast the maximum amount of air through the vents. Is this correct or maybe we misunderstood?

[dash]

We'll talk with the dealer again about the Infinity and the duct evaluation. We did mention that we'd like the noise of the air from the vents to be quieter if possible. We were told that even with the increase of 2.5 to 3 Ton, the variable speed fan with this Performance system would only operate at the speed that it needed to achieve the settings and wouldn't always just blast the maximum amount of air through the vents. Is this correct or maybe we misunderstood?

It could be set for 350 cfms per ton,so 1050 cfms total,just 50 more more than 400 cfms per ton of a 2.5 ton.

However in most cases the more "powerful" VS fan is going to move more air then the old system did.

I'd want the duct system checked and some assurance about noise,if the existing one is noisey,the new one will be to ,or even more noisey,IMHO.

[RyanHughes]

Ask if you're getting the FV4BNF005T00 air handler with system one. The "T" tin-coated models are becoming pretty standard (10-year warranty, tin-coated coil) in most areas, but it's good to check. The FV4BNF00500 is not tin-plated, and I'm not sure it carries a 10-year warranty as well.

System 1 is a good system. The 25HPA536H was specifically designed to get 9 HSPF.

Backup heat, at 20 kW, seems like more than usual for a 3 ton system. Is that what the unit had before (and is capable of electric wise)? I notice the other proposal includes 15 kW of backup heat.