RGRM GAS FURNACES

[timkav]

I see that Rheem has a new RGRM series 95% Gas Furnace line. Yet the 45 thru 105K units do NOT qualify for the Federal Tax Credit for having an Advanced Main Air Circulating Fan, while the 120K models does, but is ONLY 93% AFUE. So it doesn't qualify for the bigger $$$ Tax Credit. Does anyone know why this would be?
Are the motors on the RGRM 45-105 actually variable speed? Or are they some variation of an X-13 motor?

[docholiday]

ECM...

[timkav]

Thanks for the reply Doc. It doesn't answer my question. While all variable speed motors are ECMs, not all ECMs are variable speed. That's why I asked the question about the X-13 variation.
Additionally, it doesn't appear that the Rheem A/Cs or Heat Pumps get any "SEER Bounce" when matched with the RGRM furnaces, according to the current AHRI Listings. What's up with that?

[inf_sys]

They are variable speed blowers not X-13. I expect that the ARI ratings may be revised in the future as this is a new unit. Rheem has usually had some smaller increases in SEER when they match their units with variable speed units even on the lower tonnages. Some 14 SEER hit 14.5 some can hit 16 it really depends on the coils as they have several options when it comes to coils that can be used. You see more of this on the A/C gas furance split system matchups. I have seen Rheem's ARI numbers be revised in the past and that may happen again once all the testing is done. Most mfg have internal testing chambers where they test their equipment and then send onto ARI for their testing and rating. Most mfg will rate lower that they expect the final rating to be as a system being rated higher than you said when you submitted it is ok but if they lower a rating it is more of a note on your record that it was rated to something lower than you stated it tested at.

[inf_sys]

As far as the 120K unit it is rated at 93.3%. I am sure this is due to the physical size of the primary and secondary heat exchangers as well as the air flow required of a unit of that size. Same reason that when you get into 5 ton condensers and add variable speed you don't get to the next SEER point in many cases. Some are still rated at 13 some 13.5 etc. Once you get to a certain point using the same technology you get diminishing returns.

[sktn77a]

If I understand your question correctly, I think Rheem only put the ECM credit under their Tax Credit if the furnace does not qualify based on AFUE (ie you don't get both - only one or the other).

Re: your other question, I think Rheem historically have produced some innovative and high quality furnaces and condensers but they were not the most energy efficient. This is coming back to bite them now with tight money and tax credits.

[inf_sys]

The furnances other than the 120K are eligible for the 30% up to the $1500.00 tax credit for equipment and installation since they are 95% AFUE. The 120K models using only the ECM variable speed motor would get a credit for the motor only. This is the statement from the Rheem Tax Certification as to the 120K models:

*This furnace contains an “advanced main air circulating fan”. IRC Section 25C, as amended by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA), provides a tax credit equal to 30 percent of the cost of installation of an advanced main air circulating fan that is used in a natural gas, propane or oil furnace. As furnace fans are not separately invoicedas a furnace component, The Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Institute (AHRI) has recommended to the IRS a tax credit of $234.00 or 8.7% of the installed cost of a furnace containing an “advanced main air circulating fan”. This data is provided as general information only. Please consult with your tax advisor to determine what, if any, tax credit may be available to you.

Not real clear as to if that is a max of $234.00 credit or what. I am sure the CPA's are going to be looking for help come tax time on all this.

[sktn77a]

Yep, they're estimating the cost of the "advanced main air circulating fan" at 8.7% of the total cost of the furnace plus installation. Don't know of many places you can get a furnace with an advanced main air circulating fan for $2700 ($234/0.087) installed - that's certainly not the average cost any place I know!

So I guess you can mutiply 8.7% of whatever you pay for the furnace install and get that back in tax credit on a furnace with an advanced fan (uses less than 2% of the total furnace energy) but that does not meet the AFUE requirements..