ReplyAt the school I go to HVAC/R Techs all get the same tech. training. The only difference beween the diploma, assosiates and bachlor degrees is the general ed courses.
Regular Guest
Originally Posted by mdevera211
Associates in HVAC. And I do figure things out and when I have questions, I ask. Besides, who said I can't do electrical and the other things I mentioned. You don't know what experience I have in this field...
I'm just saying that you can't legitly do HVAC without a license... let alone run your own HVAC business just because you have a diploma.
Good luck finding a job in this field with that attitude of yours. Even better luck with your future illegal HVAC scabbin' endeavors.
Professional Member
At the school I go to HVAC/R Techs all get the same tech. training. The only difference beween the diploma, assosiates and bachlor degrees is the general ed courses.
Semper Fi
Professional Member*
Well, I have 15 years experience... a whole crapload of certifications... and I have attended continuing education classes offered by the union hall. I've been on time and put forth an honest day's work for a day's pay.
I have learned that none of that seems to matter as it is "who you know". That's why those with none of the things in the first paragraph continue working in these economic times.
My last day of work was in January, 2009. I have two pay stubs for the year so far.
Sent out tons of resumes with almost zero responses.
My insurance ran out May 1. Already lost a pension credit for 2008, now well on my way to losing one for 2009. Not being able to get a job because of being out of work for this period of time is becoming a possibility.
Lots of other union sheet metal people in similar situations.
I am seriously persuing other options as I can no longer afford to be a well qualified and unemployed union sheet metal worker.
If you put out the money for a CDL, will you be able to get a job? Will they pay more than the fuel will cost you?
Best of luck. Don't know what else to say.
Professional Member
Thanks Neo
And guys this isnt the first time this has happened either. At one point our local would alternate guys on jiobs just so their sub pay wouldnt run out. Keep in mind that we have never had any president hurl us into the crapper like this one has and it boils down to, do what you need top right now.
And jdj you never called me back.
You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.
Regular Guest
Actually, I'm getting phone calls and interviews from potential employers right now. I'm not worried at all, I'll get a job no problem. If I don't get a job then I'll just keep working for myself. I like the flexibility and the money is not bad. The only reason I would like to work for a company is so I can get benefits which cost a lot of money if I were to buy them on my own.
I'm just trying to show you guys there's an alternative to working for somebody else. If you don't have a contractors license, it doesn't mean you can't work. It just means you are limited to how much work you can do. Getting a contractors license isn't all that hard. Guys here with a contractors license know what I'm talking about.
AOP Committee/Professional Member*
There are many reasons you might be having trouble.
First, almost any good job I ever had was by at least meeting someone who worked for that company. The popular term for this is networking.
Second, if you want to get people to recommend you, they have to feel comfortable about you AND your abilities.
Do you present yourself well? Do you sound like someone that they could introduce to their mother, and not be embarrassed after doing so? Do you have a neat appearance, good hygiene, and wear your belt where a belt should be worn?
If an prospective employer asked you to describe the refrigerant cycle, could you do so in a clear an unambiguous manner? Would you smile and make eye contact?
Now, if none of the possible negative to which I just alluded apply to you, then start working on that networking. Ask everyone you know if THEY know someone in HVAC. Ask to meet them. Tell them you are eager to meet people in the industry, and that you realize that a school experience is really a license to learn.
As I often point out here, you need to be as well educated as those who were on an academic track in high school, because this business will only become more complex. Those who went to tech school because they didn't like English Lit might not fare so well in the future. And, most of them are too young right now to appreciate the truth of that statement.
Polish up, start meeting people, and expect nothing, and never show the irritation mentioned in your post.
[Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
2 Tim 3:16-17
RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
Member, IAEI
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Professional Member
I'm very professional.
Eye Contact
Smile
Dressed for success
Truthful
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The whole nine.
I appreciate your advice.
Honestly I think I just have to take this as a loss. I pursued this trade with all my heart. I've called every contractor in a 50 mile radius of myself over the last year. I've been on interviews. But the common thread is always "we would like you to have more experience". I'm tired of stressing myself over this. I know in my heart and mind that I've tried my hardest and sacrificed to get to this point.
I paid my own school tuition out my pocket. I paid for all my tools. I gave this a fair shot.
I'm going back to school this fall. Probably ITT and get an associates in Criminal Justice. I will continue to study H.V.A.C. so I can do it on the side but as far as my career, it's just too unstable and dictated by people's personal factors for me to depend on this anymore.
I want to thank everyone in this thread for all the great advice and comments. You helped me in my decision. I'll still be around lurking in the education forums as I work on the side.
Everyone take care!
EFC Committee/Professional Member*
I hope it turns out well for you.
I have 4.5 yrs experience, no trade school, but a number of NATE Certs, and an NCI cert. I recently faced a layoff. I looked and found new work in 3 days. I went to 2 interviews, and both made offers. I ended up accepting one offer, the day before the layoff.
Basically NATE Pays. I know my stuff and have worked VARY hard to know it, but I quickly realized that I would need independent verification that I do, in fact, really know what I am talking about - because no one would believe me if I said I can design a 20 ton commercial system from evap coils and fan to grilles and louvers, or that I can layout a lead/lag system with automatic switchover and failure alarm from scratch using grainger parts.
I would need to prove it.
So I got a bunch of Certs - I wrote a thread to help you if you want to (How to beat NATE - start on post 32)
I also took pictures of my lead lag as I made it and kept it. I have the drawings from the first air balancing job I ever did - a Psyche ward in Harlem hospital NYC.
Basically, it is good to be good. It is better to be able to prove to others you are good.
Hope it helps!!
Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
Professional Member
seems that it's a little bit easier and more define in the US. I pound the pavement, sent letter to every single contractor in my city, and no result. all wants the next level certificate which I'm planning to take in sept. I'm willing to take the education, school is no problem for me. but landing the 1st job is hard. mean while I still need to eat... savings is kinda dwindling down, but I'm surviving.
now I'm waiting for union gas to get over the office beaurocracy and tell me whether I have a chance for the next lvl of interview or not. kinda have a job offer installing wood stove + carpentery from an acquintance but it's two hour north and in canada we're talking about the boonies here, hick country.
all I can say to the guys who are in the same boat as me is just to press on. hopefully you find something. and trust me, I know it's hard.
Regular Guest
I apologize if I sounded harsh.
JDJ I have to agree with, time to move on. I know I have after today.
I bet in the area where I live at there have been 1 I know of at least and perhaps another HVAC/R trade school has opened flooding the market with available candidates. It seems like the HVAC/R trade for these schools is a boom given the number of people laid off looking for employment. Perhaps my opinion but the trade should police the system more by setting education standards, acceptable schools and the number allowed into the trade.
Regular Guest
I tested with a national chain today and did pretty good with their electrical test. Manager said it was one of the highest score he's gotten. If you look hard enough there's something out there even with this tough economy. I had an interview last week with another company. I'd like to get that one if they call me.
New Guest
+1, well stated.
Professional Member
Thx man. I enrolled at ITT Technical Institute. Going to get an associates in I.T. Computer Network Systems.
I believe there are good people in this trade but I also believe that it is very poorly regulated and managed. The way these schools are turning out people into a dead trade is ridiculous. A Goldfish has a better chance living in the waters off Alcatraz than the average guy does finding a gig in this field after trade school.
I could go on, but what's the point. I'm satisfied with my decision. My kids are 9 and 3. I'm not about to be going through this crap anymore.
I admit I may sound bitter or angry. You would to if you sacrificed as much as I have to give my all to be a success in this industry and have it not work out because some guy behind a desk would rather pay an alcoholic druggie instead of me solely because he has 5 yrs experience.
Professional Member
Before you go into computers take some advice from someone who switched over from computers to refrigeration. I.T. is a very broad field, you will find some cool things in the networking side of things but be prepared to have a very sedentary work day. You will spend endless hours behind a computer screen, whether you design software, troubleshoot networks, or work for a software firm doing customer support, etc. etc. There is money to be made in I.T. but you will end up in the same boat as you are in right now....too few jobs, too many applicants. If you are determined to go the computer route, get into the control side of HVAC-R, but then again you need to have hands on experience in order to truly understand the design/control side of things. The hard part about starting out is that you have to pick up and go where the work is. This means looking for jobs EVERYWHERE. IF you look hard enough you will find the work. Look down different avenues such as working overseas as a contractor on a military base, try getting on with a pipefitter outfit, swallow your pride and start walking into local residential/commercial repair shops. You will get the experience eventually if you stick too it.
Of course there are schools churning out applicants. Thats what every school does. They take as much money from as many students as they can possibly teach, its a business. All you can do is rise above the crowd by taking specialized classes on reefers, chillers, etc. When I went and got my computer degree I graduated in a pool of hundreds of other graduates looking for the same jobs. When you start venturing into I.T. you will find yourself up against hundreds of very smart people from India, then you will be right back where you started, being bitter about other people being given your job. Just my two cents.
P.S. There are plenty of good reasons to hire people who are straight out of tech school. A good manager will know this. Young blood is stronger, faster, and eager to learn. There was an old saying in the computer industry: "It is better to hire somone with a faster processor than a complete instruction set."
EFC Committee/Professional Member*
Well said. I have managed to get work without much experience, it can be done. If you allow experience to be the only factor, it will be. You gotta load the dice in your favor before you walk into an interview.
I hope you end up happy. Sorry to see a tradesman down on his luck. I also have a bit of a computer background, and I have found HVAC to be a FAR quicker path to a good paycheck, and a satisfying workday.
- but to each his own, I guess.
Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
Regular Guest
That's the problem! We can't even get in the door for an interview.
EFC Committee/Professional Member*
I have been there before. I hear you loud and clear.
Maybe what I did will work for you too. To prevent this, I have it very clear, and very prominently on my resume that I hold a number of Certifications, 7 from NATE, 1 from National Comfort Institute, I am certified for the use of a torch in NYC by the fire department, (hey, it's a cert - right?) I have the EPA Universal, and EPA for automotive HVAC (I've only worked on my own car), and I even found a cert put out by Mainstream Engineering for being a PM tech - free, but informative, and it is available for viewing online, and I have an R-410A cert that the local supply house put out for free at a class that even had free food.
It at least SOUNDS impressive, even though several of them were way easy, and are little more than an extra layer of stuff to pad my wallet. (the PM tech, and Auto cert for example). Don't get me wrong, I learned from all of them, and all are useful to a degree. But the main reason for getting them is that it gets a foot in the door, and an employer is less likely to see I am 4 years in the trade, and more likely to see I know what I am doing, because I am giving him another metric to evaluate me on that does not involve 'oh he only has 4 years experience'.
So you ask for an interview, and send your resume full of Certs, and then he looks at the other guy with 9 years, and only an EPA cert.....
You get the call.
Then I gotta sell it at an interview. But at least I got an interview.
Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
Professional Member*
Feel free to read my opinion on HVAC a few posts up. I also know plenty of people with alledged drinking, drug and attendance issues that have managed to maintain employment in 2009 compared to the two pay stubs I have for the same time period. Has nothing to do with skills other than a round mouth.
If you really think getting a degree in IT (or getting a CDL) is going to make the job search any easier than HVAC, you are sorley mistaken.
Yeah, inexperienced IT people and the fresh meat with the shiny CDL are raking in the dough.....
Professional Member*
I also have a bunch of certs, and have been told more than once that it raises a flag. Someone book smart rather than field smart.
Sometimes a person can be both.
Sometimes, despite many efforts to open the doors, the doors remain closed.
EFC Committee/Professional Member*
I can see that, but if you have worked around billy bob "beer can cold" long enough and you see, as the employer does, that book smart is not such a bad thing. Tweaks in the resume are likely a good fix for that, noting projects you have completed for example, shows field smarts. I have pictures of the 12 story high rise I was project manager on, for example.
I am fundamentally incapable of throwing up my hands and giving up. It has at times not been a positive quality, but it has gotten me through a lot of service calls with positive results, and I when I changed jobs a few months back, I got a raise, even in this downturn. The goal is not 'Numba is great', but instead 'You can do it too'. I will post to help the felas all I can, but one thing that no one can do for another guy is change his attitude.
Keep your chin up and keep on keeping on guys. If you gotta change carreers, I hope it goes well, but if the same frustrations follow into the new carreer, maybe the issue lies somewhere else. It would be good to accurately troubleshoot THAT problem before getting into debt with student loans - eh?
Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
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